Possibili Specifiche del Revolution

[Cappy]

A lot of people will say that it is impossible that we could include all of these features into a next-generation game or Nintendo’s console considering its size. But I would like you to keep one word in mind “efficiency”. The Nintendo GameCube is by far the most efficient console this generation by far, it may not be the most “powerful” but its certainly the most efficient. This means it is the most efficient at producing in-game visuals of all three console be that polygons, lighting, textures, number of models on screen it is the most efficient as producing visuals in-game. It is also worth noting that nothing this generation has surpassed Star Wars Rogue Squadron III: Rogue Leader in terms of in-game calculations. That game pushed somewhere around 15,000 polygons per model in-game including AI, textures, reflections, lighting etc. No game to date has surpassed it. Not Halo, not Metroid Prime, not Half-Life 2, not Ninja Gaiden, not Chaos Theory on Xbox, not Resident Evil 4 to this day nothing has surpassed it. Keep in mind also this was a GameCube launch title. This should speak volumes about the GameCubes efficiency at producing in-game visuals per polygon, per calculation. Its not just about the spec sheet. Half of it has to do with how the game engine compliments the hardware at the highest peak utilizable and the integrity of the source code.


The truth is that any of the next-generation consoles could fully support our engine albeit some minor tweaks to be respective to the different CPU’s. Of course only Nintendo’s console will see our title but that’s not to say that we wouldn’t make our engine available to others for use in different projects. But the controller is essential to the gameplay so there really is no way the other two consoles could replicate this title to any degree playable. The small size of the console probably has to do with the new ventilation technology that Nintendo has been investing in. I haven’t got my hands on the retail console all we get are the beta kits for now. But from what I’ve heard the ventilation has to do with pushing air in and out very fast. Keeping cool air in and warm air out, and it needs to be very compact and tight for the ventilation to work properly. That’s not my area so I don’t know the exacts but that’s what I was told. I was told this when I asked why the proto at E3 was a hollow shell. They said they were still finalizing the cooling system and they were still having overheating issues because it wasn’t compact enough.

[Alpha kit:]
As to the specs of the console, when we were first told to expect the alpha kits we were told it would have a four core processor called “Broadway” and a 520MHz GPU called “Hollywood“. Needless it didn’t quite make those specifications. When we received the alpha kits they sported a 95nm three core PowerPC G4 architecture running at 3.4GHz, two threads per core. The initial gameplay engine was built from this as we knew we would most likely have to scale up the engine for the beta kits later on. There was a few problems like minimal bugs and we were constantly having to keep the GPU running at the lowest optimization because it wasn’t final and we were being told that we might have to scale down for the final GPU.


[Beta kit:]
When we received the beta kits in early July it was refreshing and annoying at the same time. Because the GPU was final at last but the CPU had been scaled down in a way.


In the kits we have now (beta) which we are being told will most likely have a minimal boost in efficiency and need we say “power”. It now has a 65nm duel core PowerPC G5 architecture running at 3.8GHz, four threads per core and a huge L2 cache. The lack of the extra core is not as crushing as it may sound because now we have more threads per core than we initially had before. But there are certain drawbacks, the upgrade to a G5 is nice but there is just as much if not more heat than the alpha kits. Which leads me to believe that in the final kits they will just go with a G4 duel-core instead to keep up with cost and availability. But whatever the final outcome it will more than hold its own against the 360 and Cell chips.


The GPU has now been finalized thank god and I stand very impressed with ATI. Hollywood is basically a modified R520 respectively with of course some minor upgrades and alterations. The chips we are working with now are running at between 600-620MHz depending on what developer you work for (I think Square-Enix and Ubisoft have the 620’s). But I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if they back peddled and went to just 600MHz or even 590MHz because the 620’s running at the highest peak can cause critical bottlenecks.


Last but not least they have paid Ageia a good portion of cash it seems and included a very modified Physical Processing Unit. It is a 65nm just like the CPU with 32MB and from what I can tell is a hell of a lot smaller than the ones you can get for your PC, even at 65nm. I have worked with both types and I can tell no difference in performance or development options and tools from one to another. So how they pulled that off is anyone’s guess.





To answer your question about the disc format. What we are using now are dual-layer HD-DVD. This could of course change but we are just working with what we have been provided. The format I think is being headed by Panasonic.[This means the disk format, NOT that they will be using 720p+]


If I had to compare specs sheets which I don’t like to do I would probably put this console in the middle. But then again the 360 architecture can do physics almost as good and comparable to this because of that extra core. Which we were doing with Nintendo’s console when we were working with the alpha kits. Although the PhysX is a great chip and does physics marginally better than the 360, I still think it was a choice of cost rather than performance. Because having that PhysX chip made was a little less expensive than having a triple-core CPU in ***** system believe it or not. But games like Gears of War or Fight Night or basically anything that has been shown as next-gen material would run very smooth and beautiful on this build. Everything runs like a dream. This might seem very unbelievable to many people. Considering Nintendo’s quotes on affordability, emphasis on the controller, and small console size. But I can guarantee you that these specifications are as close and accurate to the final hardware that you will hear. Remember that a three core G4 or G5 would be a lot more expensive than the 360’s CPU. Seeing that they are wanting to stick to a G4 or G5 architecture when affordability comes to mind. It makes more sense to include the PPU rather than stick a very hot running and expensive three core G4/G5 in ***** system. Not to mention having to spend extra time and a lot of extra money further tweaking the ventilation technology to accommodate an extremely hot running triple core G5. The duel core runs hot enough as it is. But I will go on the record and speculate that the final hardware may have a 590-600MHz GPU as opposed to 620MHz.


As I said before we don’t get our hands on the actual retail console itself, all we work with are the beta kits…which look nothing like a console. So from what I have been told about the new compression ventilation tech, that is what Nintendo faces the biggest lose on pricing the console in my opinion. Not the chip specs their selves. I imagine a good team of engineers could shrink the 360 down to ¼ maybe even half its size if they did away with all media features, Ethernet port and no HDD included. With all the full hardware/Chipware spec sheet fully intact. Keep the wi-fi capability on-board, keep the ring of light, keep the Gamer Profile user system intact, Keep Wireless Controller w/ the patented wireless tech and w/ gamer profile button/on-off button. All of this included into a much sleeker 360. If I had to bet it could be extremely comparable in size, weight, possibly even dimensions to the “Revolution” console that has been shown.


So to say that the 360 could not be made sleeker and made strictly for gaming purposes only...is nonsense, it can be done, and it will be done. Just look at Sony who’s PS2 console was called big and clunky albeit a lot of people thought looked cool. Ultimately went for a much more compact and sleeker design with the SlimLine PS2. Remember “Revolution” doesn’t have all these media features, or Ethernet port, or an included HDD. The size of the console will and could fully accommodate the specs I have given, which are accurate to the beta kits we work with ***** day.


My job here is mostly ********** for the game and ********* *** direction. The latter was definitely more of a challenge because I’ve always done programming and that comes natural to me. But the reason that the character designs were a challenge is because we are aiming to get a hyper realistic feel and that means you have to really stick close to how people actually look and dress. Which means in some ways you have to be more creative with choice of clothes and different fashions for different time periods and parts of the world. Which is a challenge because you don’t want anything tacky, but also don’t want anything boring or bland. So on that side of things there was a lot of decisions to make as to what we wanted to express through clothing and apparel. This new job sort of obligated me to have a very assorted and mixed style of taste in fashion. Something that I’m usually not good at but I think I have risen to the challenge.



Voi che ne pensate? Fake o Realtà?

[*sasha ITALIA*]

Originariamente inviato da Cappy

[Alpha kit:]
As to the specs of the console, when we were first told to expect the alpha kits we were told it would have a four core processor called “Broadway” and a 520MHz GPU called “Hollywood“. Needless it didn’t quite make those specifications. When we received the alpha kits they sported a 95nm three core PowerPC G4 architecture running at 3.4GHz, two threads per core. The initial gameplay engine was built from this as we knew we would most likely have to scale up the engine for the beta kits later on. There was a few problems like minimal bugs and we were constantly having to keep the GPU running at the lowest optimization because it wasn’t final and we were being told that we might have to scale down for the final GPU.



In the kits we have now (beta) which we are being told will most likely have a minimal boost in efficiency and need we say “power”. It now has a 65nm duel core PowerPC G5 architecture running at 3.8GHz, four threads per core and a huge L2 cache. The lack of the extra core is not as crushing as it may sound because now we have more threads per core than we initially had before. But there are certain drawbacks, the upgrade to a G5 is nice but there is just as much if not more heat than the alpha kits. Which leads me to believe that in the final kits they will just go with a G4 duel-core instead to keep up with cost and availability. But whatever the final outcome it will more than hold its own against the 360 and Cell chips.


Voi che ne pensate? Fake o Realtà?

si certo si sono proprio messi a riprogettare il G4 spingendola da 1,7 GHz single core con bus a 266 MHz a 3 core da 3,4 GHz l'uno solo per gli alpha kit

Senza contare quel dual core G5@3,8 GHz.. ricordo che il massimo esistente del G5 raggiunge i 2,5 GHz dualcore, l'intero computer dissipa circa 800Watt, ed è grande così



Proprio nel Revo poi, che è largo si e no 15 cm ed è volutamente poco potente, non riesce a garantire l'HD


Ma la finissero di sparare stronzate... vabbè poi che la 360 ha un tricore da 3,2 GHz e nessuno se l'aspettava, ma non è affatto un G5, e come tale non ci dobbiamo assolutamente aspettare tale processore anche nel REvo.

[*sasha ITALIA*]

P.S. comunque sia ancora mi chiedo come fa a starci un tricore da 3,2 GHz l'uno nella 360

[Manp]

Originariamente inviato da *sasha ITALIA*

P.S. comunque sia ancora mi chiedo come fa a starci un tricore da 3,2 GHz l'uno nella 360

?

[*sasha ITALIA*]

si mi chiedo come abbiano fatto a ficcare un tricore da 3,2 GHz in una scatoletta così

[Manp]

Originariamente inviato da *sasha ITALIA*

si mi chiedo come abbiano fatto a ficcare un tricore da 3,2 GHz in una scatoletta così

non è che "tricore da 3,2 GHz" sia indicazione di consumi e dissipazione...

[RedSky]

Originariamente inviato da Manp

non è che "tricore da 3,2 GHz" sia indicazione di consumi e dissipazione...

quoto

dai un occhio a cosa dissipa e scalda un Amd X2 4400+ e un Dual Intel da 3800 e ti metti a ridere

[SilverXXX]

Al 99,9% sono i nuovi processori power (o derivati) non dei G5

[sslazio]

ma che differenza c'è tra un processore G4 e un processore G5?

[*sasha ITALIA*]

sono due architetture differenti:

Il PowerPC G4 è un microprocessore RISC a 32 bit appartenente alla famiglia dei processori PowerPC . È utilizzato nei computer Apple Macintosh. In particolare nei PowerBook G4, nella seconda generazione "Sunflower" degli iMac, negli eMac, nella terza generazione degli iBook, e nei computer desktop Power Macintosh G4.
La maggior parte della progettazione del G4 è stata svolta dalla Motorola in stretta collaborazione con Apple. Il nome si riferisce alla quarta generazione di processori PowerPC sviluppati da Motorola. IBM, il terzo partner del progetto PowerPC decise di non partecipare alla progettazione del G4 per divergenze sulla progettazione dell'unità di calcolo vettoriale integrata nella CPU. Questa unità di calcolo è chiamata AltiVec. È un unita di calcolo a 128 bit dedicata al calcolo vettoriale, nella documentazione tecnica di Apple viene chiamata "Velocity Engine".
[modifica]

In informatica PowerPC G5 è il nome dato sia al PowerPC 970 che ai PowerPC 970FX ed PowerPC 970MP. Si tratta di processori a 64 bit della famiglia PowerPC sviluppati da IBM, che li ha presentati nel 2002, utilizzati come CPU nei computer Power Mac G5 di Apple Computer.
Il PowerPC 970 è costruito utilizzando una tecnologia a 130nm e il PowerPC 970FX è costruito utilizzando una tecnologia a 90nm. Il microprocessore è formato da 58 milioni di transistor. È basato sui processori Power4 sviluppati da IBM e include una unità di calcolo AltiVec. Una caratteristica degna di nota del PowerPC G5 è la capacità di eseguire nativamente codice a 32 bit senza una riduzione delle prestazioni.
Seguendo le precedenti convenzioni, Apple ha rinominato il processore PowerPC 970 in G5, dato che si tratta della quinta generazione di un processore PowerPC. Apple ha presentato le prime macchine nel Giugno 2003 ma appena si è reso disponibile il processore PowerPC 970FX ha convertito la sua linea di computer a questo processore, principalmente per problemi di carattere energetico. Essendo il 970FX sviluppato con una tecnologia a 90 nm dissipa una potenza inferiore al 970 e quindi si può utilizzare a frequenze più elevate. Attualmente Apple, nelle macchine PowerMac G5, utilizza i PowerPC G5 con frequenza in configurazione monoprocessore di 1.8 GHz e biprocessore di 2.0, 2.3 e 2.7 GHz (la terza macchina è raffreddata al liquido). I processori G5 vengono utilizzati anche nei server Xserve a frequenze di 2.0, 2.3 GHz e negli iMac G5 con frequenze di 1,9 e 2,1 GHz.
Una variante del PowerPC G5 verrà utilizzata per realizzare le prossime console Xbox 360 e l'evoluzione del GameCube di Nintendo, chiamata Revolution. IBM ha in sviluppo il processore 970MP, che è previsto per il terzo trimestre del 2005, e attualmente ha il nome in codice di "Antares". Il PowerPC 970MP sarà dotato di due processori integrati nello stesso contenitore e funzionerà a una frequenza di 3,5 GHz. Questo chip utilizzerà inizialmente la tecnologia a 90 nm, per migrare poi verso quella a 65 nm.
[modifica]

Insomma secondo l'autore di questo articolo di Wikipedia, più o meno lo stesso tricore di 360 equipaggerà il revo..

[aceto876]

Il fatto che le CPU sviluppate da ibm abbiano un architettutra e un ISA derivato dai power non significa che siano dei power come quelli dei mac.
Per esempio mi risulta che le CPU custom per console non permettano l'esecuzione OOO, fatto che semplifica nettamente l'architettura e permette di far stare i tre core della Xbox in un die di dimensioni industrialmente possibili. Ma c'è chi ne sa più di me di queste cose

[sslazio]

Originariamente inviato da *sasha ITALIA*

sono due architetture differenti:






Insomma secondo l'autore di questo articolo di Wikipedia, più o meno lo stesso tricore di 360 equipaggerà il revo..

mi sembra contraddirsi in un paio di punti chi ha scritto l'articolo.
Comunque se non ho capito male l'unica vera differenza tra G4 e G5 sta nell'introduzione delle istruzioni a 64bit cosa peraltro estremamente inutile da quel che si è visto in giro in ambito videoludico.

[Manp]

Originariamente inviato da RedSky

un Dual Intel da 3800 e ti metti a ridere

o a piangere

un dual core intel qualsiasi in full load (solo la cpu) consuma più di tutta l'Xbox 360

[Cappy]

Originariamente inviato da *sasha ITALIA*

Insomma secondo l'autore di questo articolo di Wikipedia, più o meno lo stesso tricore di 360 equipaggerà il revo..

Quindi,sappiamo che la 360 sfrutta un triplo processore e tenendo conto che la 360 ha un sacco di funzioni multimediali che il revo non avrà e che la nintendo sembra abbia investito molto su un sistema di raffreddamento ad aria di una società tedesca,non credete sia possibile che il revo sia composto di un doppio processore a cui è stata aggiunta una ppu?
Per chi non lo sa il revolution è questa console:
http://ms.nintendo-europe.com/black/...EI1QUsz33iOf2e
Date un'occhiata alle dimensioni.

[*sasha ITALIA*]

può darsi benissimo

[Vegita.ssj]

Devo provare Rouge Squadron II : Rogue Leader
Non posso credere che sia più performante di half.life2

[*sasha ITALIA*]

RS2 ha una grafica impareggiabile.. i Factor 5 sono imho tra i migliori programmatori in circolazione

[Vegita.ssj]

Cacchio è davvero così mastoso???

[SilverXXX]

Se come per xbox non è prevista l'oooe mi pare ben fattibile

[Cappy]

Originariamente inviato da SilverXXX

Se come per xbox non è prevista l'oooe mi pare ben fattibile

...scusate l'ignoranza....ma cos'è l'oooe?