Shader 3.0 o Shader 2.0

[REPSOL]

Originariamente inviato da Maury


Ma è tutta bonarietà, nn c'è cattiveria, per ridere

Lo so lo so, oramai (purtroppo ) vi conosco tutti su questo forum

[mantes]

Originariamente inviato da crice
lascia tutto in defoult, così la tua scheda lavorerà a seconda dei casi nel modo + ottimale.

Dici che è la soluzione migliore?
Però di defoult sono settati come disable,questo significa che nn verranno usati in nessun caso....

[REPSOL]

Originariamente inviato da mantes
Dici che è la soluzione migliore?
Però di defoult sono settati come disable,questo significa che nn verranno usati in nessun caso....

Magari è disabilitata la forzatura dei pixel e vertex.... quindi essendo su disable, vengono scelti dal tipo di applicazione avviata...... penso voglia dire quello.

Ciaoz

[DjLode]

Notiziuola forse interessante:

http://www.ixbt.com/video2/fc12-2.shtml

E' in russo quindi occhio per ora solo ai grafici. Un pò di traduzione presa da un sito, magari è fatta un pò con i piedi ma si capisce:

"Disclaimer: The large part of this article was written to the output
of the final version of patcha. Nearer toward the end of the article
possible it found additional information about changes in those
occurred between the version originally by us of that obtained and by
the version, which left officially.

After the appearance of the first part of the article many opinions
appeared. Among them was both enthusiastic and skeptical. The first
expected it saw FarCry, renderinga (so called sm30path) carried out in
the new regime on all videokartakh, which support piksel'nye sheydery
of the second version. However, the second spoke about the complete
impossibility of this. Now 4, already during indivisible experimenting
with different modifications FarCry 1.2, which work on videokartakh of
those supporting sheydery only of second version, I can he said that
are partly right they was and those, etc.

Without putting aside into the long box, 4 to podtverzhdayu that on
the hands is version FarCry 1.2, which is carried out in the so-called
regime "sm30path" (more precise only in its part of that corresponding
to piksel'nym sheyderam) on videokartakh of those supporting
piksel'nye sheydery 2..x and that put outting as a result the image,
identical obtained on NV40. further such sheydery we budem frequently
called "long".

Necessarily noted that duplicating geometry (GeometryInstancing) in
the case of our tests practically it does not influence eventual
result. This it is not meant that this function it is useless, but it
wakes it maximally appeared in the case when "narrow" place with
renderinge it is central processor not have timing it assigned the set
of the excess parameters for mapping of scene. Such with the standard
testing FarCry on NV40 it is not occurred, partly because FarCry
originally byl is optimized under existing videokarty. Subsequently
the situation can changed. For example, developers on videokartakh,
which support duplicating geometry (GeometryInstancing), smogut on the
free spaces it sketched the real geometry of vegetation at large
distances from the player, without substituting by its spraytami
(imposters).

Even with the preparation of the first part of the article it was
explained that theoretically in regime sm30path instead of sheyderov
of the third version possible it limited to the use of sheyderov of
the second version. Therefore was undertaken attempts it forced FarCry
it used the regime of renderinga, calculated for "long" sheydery of
the third version on videokartakh, which support only sheydery 2..x.

The total step-by-step list of the accomplished work appears
approximately thus:

FarCry was "it was deceived" it sufficed was used the regime of
renderinga, analogous to that carried out on NV40, with renderinge
instead of sheyderov of the third version of steel it was used
equivalent sheydery of the second version, was checked the identity of
the obtained images. The first stage is solved relatively simply: with
the aid of utility 3DAnalize already mentioned in the previous part of
the material was substituted combination VendorID/DeviceID, which
identifies producer and concrete product, and also was advanced flags
that current videokarta it supports sheydery of the third version. As
a result of such actions FarCry neglected on the system with any
videokartoy begins it received it as NV40 it allows was used rendering
of several sources it dawned into one passage with the aid of "long"
sheyderov.

The second stage - substitution of sheyderov of the third version, to
analogous sheydery of the second version - for us it succeeded it
conducted partly using cursor itself FarCry as pomoshnika. The fact is
that FarCry can itself perekompilirovat' its sheydery, written on
HLSL/Cg, and it carries out this, using external compiler from
Microsoft: fxc.exe. Therefore for achievement of our aimed this
compiler it was substituted with another program, which carries out
all actions, required from the original compiler, and by at the same
time contributing the neobkhodimye correctives into sheydery and
gathering on them statistics.

Because of the limited time for working and verification of data the given below results are based on the data of 4 levels, used in demkakh, given NVIDIA together with patchem FarCry 1.2, and alsoon the results of the girder of quite these demok: Research, Regulator, Training and Volcano. I will first give general statistics. In all for renderinga of four levels FarCry pointed out above prepare about 3500 piksel'nykh sheyderov and 3500 apical sheyderov of all accessible versions: from 1.1 to 3.0. The lion's share of sheyderov comprise the permutations of sheyderov 3.0 for the set of the different values of the initial parameters. All apical sheydery 3.0 without the problems are compiled into sheydery 2.0. As sheyderov 2.0 we obtain with the compilation of piksel'nykh sheyderov 3.0: 1700 sheyderov 2.0 and 1900 sheyderov 2..x (was used profayl ps_2_.b for chips ATI R420, but unconditionally all these sheydery can be compiled with profaylom ps_2_.a). Evidently that more than half of sheyderov impose requirements those exceeding base version 2.0. But the compilation of sheyderov, does not indicate their required use in the real game situation. For example, with the girder of demok NVIDIA it is used on one sheyderu of version 2..x at levels Regulator and Training. And not one sheydera 2..x at levels Research and Volcano. In this case a quantity of sheyderov of the base version of version 2.0, utilized in each of these demkok kolebletsya in the region of 70 pieces. Thus, we smoothly arrived at the third part of our study: the comparison of the identity of the obtained images. This part proved to be most complex, since after the initial fulfillment of two points mentioned above it turned out that skrinshoty, obtained with the use of "long" sheyderov frequently they do not coincide with those obtained with the use of sheyderov of the third version. Moreover it was not possible to say that they incorrect - simply somewhat others. Reason proved to be in the use by developers FarCry of one of the special features of the model of sheyderov of the third version - 10 interpolation registers, which store given with the floating point, and using for the transfer of the results of fulfilling apical sheydera to the the piksel'nyy. The specifications of sheyderov of y..kh-2.kh stipulated the presence only of 8 such registers of standard accuracy. Two remained registers are used for the transfer it is color, their accuracy only must be not less than 8 bits to the color channel (standard 32 bit color), and even the more crucial point: with transfer from apical sheydera to the the piksel'nyy the values of these "color" registers are cut in the range [ 0..1 ]. I.e. any value, recorded in apical sheydere and which exceeds 1 or smaller than 0 will be unavoidably distorted with the transfer to piksel'nyy sheyder. It is important to here note that this requirement of specification DirectX, so that even if videokarta, which supports piksel'nye sheydery of version 2..x can interpolate more than 8 registers with the high accuracy it it is obligated to emulate the behavior described above. Above I indicated that the developers used a special feature of sheyderov - the presence of 10 interpolation registers, but in the reality they use only 9 registers of 10 and that only with renderinge the illumination from four luminous sources into one passage (four sources - this is a maximum quantity,supported by cursor FarCry at the given moment)."

[DjLode]

"This appears by asomewhat distinction constraint and when desired of the support of sheyderov of the second version developers FarCry could simply it
limited single-pass rendering 3 by sources it dawned for this class of videokart. But since it did not be neither possibility nor of desire guided the code of game itself it was necessary it searched for alternate routes

Part 2:

Such ways at least three, below they are somewhat simply described.

With renderinge of less than 4 sources it dawned were used 8
accessible registers of high accuracy, while with 4 sources it dawned
one of the registers left "color". This the simplest and adding no
overhead expenses. As a result precisely this version was we have
used. Although there is a probability that into some places in the
game image with the use of such sheyderov it wakes it differed: we did
not find such places. after final the computed value of registers in
apical sheydere was carried out their normalization, before the
transfer to piksel'nyy sheyder. This method will wear, since in any
event in piksel'nom sheydere these registers again normalizuyutsya.
None of the interpolation registers of standard accuracy uses in
FarCry immediately all 4 components of register (x.y.z.sh). The part
of the registers uses generally only two components x and y, parts

Last Part
Reminder some Russian text was not translated (Mostly the ones under the benchmark graphs). But this gives you some ideal why jumping ship to early can co$t you


On 21 July there was was at long last released the official version of patcha 1.2. I can only be glad at the fact that all conclusions made even in the first part of the article were confirmed, and also to the fact which for me it is not necessary to strongly complain about developers FarCry about their purely marketingovom behavior. But against this below in the conclusion. Thus, admirers ATI can be glad: FarCry 1.2 are supported both the special way of renderinga for sheyderov 2..0b and the textures, compressed with the aid of 3Dc. The special method of renderinga for ATI R420 is activated, by analogy with NVIDIA by two keys: either "r_.sm2bPath" or "r_.noPs2b". For this either in the console it is necessary to introduce "\.r_.sm2bPatyu 1" or in the command line to assign the parameter to "&.tsuot;.r_.sm2bPatyu of y&.tsuot;" (quotation mark they are required). Moreover with start r_.sm2bPath, by analogy with NV40, on R420 in the future drivers will be activated "duplicating of geometry". Developers FarCry, in all likelihood, send by means of the smallest resistance and with the start of the method of using sheydery 2..x they limited the number of utilized lighting sources by 3 pieces for the passage. That 4 it proposed above: -). In this case a maximum quantity of utilized interpolation registers is equal to their maximally accessible quantity - 8 to pieces. In the operational regime we took results with the use of new patcha. Unfortunately the system, on which were removed the results was already changed in comparison with the previous measurements. ServicePack2 (but it for start sm2bPath and it was not necessary), in particular not was established. Therefore to compare results with an accuracy to one sequence will not come out. Nevertheless results it is present: Up to the moment of writing this conclusion developers FarCry by the output of official reliza of patcha 1.2 singlehandedly confirmed entire material outlined above. Thus, I will again repeat the main theses: The special features of sheyderov of the third version in the current realization FarCry are used only in the quite minimum volume. Piksel'nye sheydery 2.x easily can bethey are used instead of sheyderov 3.0 for the application of the new "accelerated" method of renderinga. Is possible the application of the "accelerated" method of renderinga even for the maps, which support only base version of sheyderov 2.0. This is confirmed at least by the fact that the maximum gain from "accelerated" renderinga came out in demkakh, which do not use sheydery of version larger the base the version 2.0. So that to developers still there is where to optimize rendering for an enormous quantity of existing videokart, which support only piksel'nye sheydery 2.0. From other side the developers dvizhutsya to introduction HDR (high dynamic range) renderinga, which will lead to further increase in the length of piksel'nykh sheyderov. And that for Crytek more priority we probably learn with the output of following patcha."

[REPSOL]

Cioè?

[DjLode]

In pratica è già presente il supporto al 3dc e allo SM 2.0b e le fantomatiche cose che hanno aggiunto sono fattibilissime anche con quella versione e i risultati sono quelli che vedi. La traduzione è un pò pesante però da leggere

[Milotto]

L'articolo è molto interessante , peccato sia tradotto in maniera penosa.....
Andrebbe capita meglio la natura dei primi grafici quando si scrive R420 SM 3.0...
Cmq sembra che la XT800PE sia di nuovo sopra ( e non di poco) al NV40...







Da approfondire...

[DjLode]

Se sai fare meglio una traduzione dal russo... accomodati
Come ho detto è da riconfermare ma pare che le stesse cose fatte con lo shader model 2.0b diano quei risultati.

[Milotto]

Purtroppo non so tradurre dal russo
In ogni caso c'è un interessante articolo su :


http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/gffx/fc12.html

[crice]

in definitiva ati batte nvidia con i filtri attivati...aspettando gli sgader model 2b

[Milotto]

In realtà è possibile ottenere attraverso la patch 1.2 l'attivazione del Geometry Instancing (feature che alcuni dubitavano che R420 avesse) ed il path SM 2.0b ; quest'ultimo da un notevole incremento alle performance ATI ...

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthre...threadid=51427

[fd-82]

Originariamente inviato da Milotto
In realtà è possibile ottenere attraverso la patch 1.2 l'attivazione del Geometry Instancing (feature che alcuni dubitavano che R420 avesse) ed il path SM 2.0b ; quest'ultimo da un notevole incremento alle performance ATI ...

http://www.driverheaven.net/showthre...threadid=51427

Si, ma servono i 4.8 (mi sembra)

[umile]

Originariamente inviato da fd-82
Si, ma servono i 4.8 (mi sembra)

ma il 2.0b è presente anche sulle 9800 vero?

[romansnake]

Ragazzi domanda secca: quindi attualmente sarebbe meglio acquistare una 6800Ultra XFX 450MHz o una X800XT PE?

[fd-82]

Originariamente inviato da umile
ma il 2.0b è presente anche sulle 9800 vero?

The 2nd option is to have a R3xx or above graphics card (9500,9600,9700,9800) DirectX 9.0b, FarCry 1.2 and Catalyst 8.041. With this setup Geometry Instancing support is possible.

Mi sembra di no, però puoi attivare il Geometry Instancing che su Far Cry darà un bel boost (da quello che si dice)

[fd-82]

Originariamente inviato da romansnake
Ragazzi domanda secca: quindi attualmente sarebbe meglio acquistare una 6800Ultra XFX 450MHz o una X800XT PE?

Io comprerei la x800GT 16 pipe, se uscira.
Il prezzo +o- sara quello della 6800GT, la sua concorrente, e avendo 16 pipe basta poco per trasformarla in xt. (vedi 9800pro@9800xt)

[romansnake]

Eh ma io devo prenderla ora ^___^
Prezzo a parte, tanto le pagherei uguali:

XFX 6800Ultra (core 450) o Sapphire X800XT ?

No flame please..

[umile]

Originariamente inviato da fd-82
Mi sembra di no, però puoi attivare il Geometry Instancing che su Far Cry darà un bel boost (da quello che si dice)

io sapevo che dalla 9700 la differenza era nelle istruzioni appunto chiamate 2.0b

[fd-82]

Originariamente inviato da umile
io sapevo che dalla 9700 la differenza era nelle istruzioni appunto chiamate 2.0b

Prova a vedere quà.