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#81 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Jun 2006
Città: Mondolfo (PU)
Messaggi: 870
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ma perchè la nasa non fa come i cinesi?
La russia possiede in museo(non ha soldi per utilizzarlo) un razzo vettore riutilizzabile nvolte con una potenza di carico assuruda! il razzo vettore Energia fino a 100T di portata. La stessa russia possiede uno space shuttel made casa loro, BURAN. Ai tempi era nettamente superiore, lanciato 1 volta.. sempre per motivi economici. Che peccato! Ad ogni modo lo sta reciclando la cina Qualcuno di voi sa niente se poi l'esa ha deciso di portare avanti il progetto HERMES?
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#82 | ||||
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Quote:
Quote:
Ad ogni modo il progetto è di proprietà dell'Energia Corp. (SP Korolev Rocket and Space Corporation Energia, oppure RKK Energia) mentre tutto l'hardware e le infrastrutture del programma a Baikonur sono di proprietà del governo del Kazakhstan. Quote:
E cmq no, la Cina non sta riclando nulla del programma "Buran". Quote:
Oggi all'interno del programma di esplorazione Aurora, l'ESA sta collaborando con la Federazione Russa per partecipare in parte al nuovo sistema russo di trasporto di astronauti in orbita terrestre e sulla Luna, il Kiper. Tuttavia l'ESA ha dichiarato che preferisce la versione non-winged del Kliper. Si possono osservare le due versioni nella pagina dedicata al Kliper sul sito della Molnija: http://www.buran.ru/htm/cliper.htm
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#83 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Jan 2002
Città: Napoli
Messaggi: 1727
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Io sinceramente sono contro le missioni umane nello spazio.
Perchè per motivi di sicurezza vengono a costare una barcata in più. E la sicurezza sarà sempre solo teorica, perchè nella realtà basta che qualcosina vada storto e state tranquilli che al primo astronauta che schiatterà in missione verso la luna/marte verranno tagliati un botto di soldi alle missioni. Io sono a favore esclusivamente per le missioni fatte con robot, anche perchè credo che i robot abbiano incredibili margini di miglioramento e le le tecnologie per migliorarli potrebbero avere ampi effetti positivi anche sulla nostra vita di tutti i giorni.
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Se buttassimo in un cestino tutto ciò che in Italia non funziona cosa rimarrebbe? Il cestino. |
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#84 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2002
Città: Treviso
Messaggi: 911
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ma, da quello che mi pare di capire guardando il link di Gio, il Kliper sfrutta sempre lo stesso concetto dei lifting-bodies per la discesa dell'orbiter.
Giusto? |
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#85 | |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Quote:
__________________
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#86 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Fonte: Nasaspaceflight.com.
NASA sets targets for new Ares infrastructure By Chris Bergin, 7/14/2006 5:12:00 PM April of next year has been set as the handover date for Launch Complex 39B from Shuttle operations to CLV (Crew Launch Vehicle) recommisioning, in the first step of Kennedy Space Center's transition back to a moon port. However, it'll come at a price, with brand new "lightweight" MLPs (Mobile Launch Platforms) and infrastructure, plus up to four test flights in the 2009 through 2010 time frame, before Ares I launches on its debut manned mission, now officially scheduled for 2012. The Vision for Space Exploration (VSE) remains a fluid goal, with dissenting opinion continues behind the scenes on the 'stick' concept. However, the timeline of bringing together the elements required is starting to come to fruition. Shuttle operations on Pad 39B - first used as an Apollo launch pad in 1969 and as a Shuttle pad in 1986 - will cease on March 31, 2007, with all remaining STS flights utilising Pad 39A - which is currently undergoing an overhaul that is expected to last for another six months. The confirmation of 39B is yet to be made official by NASA, although sources note the decision has taken place, ruling out Launch Complex 40 - which was the other frontrunner for CLV operations. Initially, LC 39B will see the dismantling of its RSS (Rotating Service Structure). Funding for the design and modification of the pad will come into effect around August, 2007, involving the modification of the FSS (Fixed Service Structure). Up to four test flights will take place prior to the pad being fully modified for Ares I operations. The test flights will utilise a the current four segment SRB (Solid Rocket Booster), with a dummy second stage. While the existing FSS is tall enough for the test flights, the LOX Vent Arm and the Crew Access Arm will also be modified to access the interstage and SRB electronics respectively. Full modifications on the pad for the Ares I vehicle will be staged during the test flights. The current FSS will then be removed after the last test flight. Overall, initial design phase is expected to last nine months, with fabrication, demolition, construction, modifications and testing expected to take another 15 to 18 months. The goal is to have the pad ready for flight hardware evaluations by the end of 2008, with the first test flight to launch from the pad a year later. NASA's goal is to have LC 39B ready to start testing with real test flight hardware no later than the end of 2008. Each of the three or four test flights will happen four months apart. One major change that'll have to occur is the construction of new MLPs (Mobile Launch Platforms) for Ares I - with one of the Shuttle MLPs being handed over for use in the test flights. This handover is expected to happen in October, 2007. This MLP will require only a slight amount of modification, utilising the left hole currently used by the left SRB of the Shuttle stack for the test flights of the four seg CLV test vehicle. However, for Ares I, a new, lightweight MLPs will be necessary. The current MLPs are simply too heavy for combination of all the weight associated with the Ares I, inadequate by around one and a half million pounds for the crawler/transporters. The MLPs used for the Shuttle program have a weight of about eight and a half million pounds in their Shuttle configuration. Add on the 4 million pounds the new LUT (Launch Umbilical Tower) will weigh, plus a fully loaded solid fuelled vehicle and other elements that will require carrying to the pad - means the crawlers would not be able to carry the load. To get around this problem, NASA will build new MLPs for Ares I, which have a different appearance to the current MLPs by way of their shape and steel beams that will replace large parts of the current 'box' platform. The existing MLPs will still live on, ready to be utilised by the Ares V (CaLV) heavy cargo vehicle. Whilst also requiring modification, the ARES V stack - along with the MLP/LUT - is expected to be pushing in excess of 15 million pounds in weight. For this, NASA will build two new super-sized crawler/transporters, using all three of the existing MLPs.
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#87 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2002
Città: Treviso
Messaggi: 911
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Come come? il crawler attuale non potra' portare l'Ares I ?? ma se e' uno sputo in confronto ai razzi Saturno per i quali e' stato progettato*.
*Pero' potra' portare l'Ares V (il super-cargo).. Non ci capisco piu' molto.. |
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#88 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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è semplice, per i primi test sarà utilizzato un prototipo dell'Ares I con configurazione a 4 stati (esattamente l'attuale SRB). Per questi test verrà utilizzata una delle 3 piattaforme di lancio (MLP) attualmente utilizzate per il programma STS (costruite negli anni '60 per il programma Apollo).
Ma per i test con la versione definitiva dell'Ares a 5 stadi e con in più la nuova LUT (Launch Umbilical Tower) che è necessaria per questo tipo di configurazioni, come con il Saturn I e V del programma Apollo, il peso eccederebbe il carico massimo trasportabile dagli attuali crawlers per cui ne verranno costruiti due nuovi (ed al passo con i tempi, gli attuali costano sempre di più come manutenzione). Contemporaneamente verranno costruite due nuove piattaforme più leggere che ospiteranno anche le nuove LUT. Tutto qua.
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#89 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2002
Città: Treviso
Messaggi: 911
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Ok, avevo inteso esattamente l'inverso:
Ares V: crawler attuale Ares I: crawler nuovo (per eccesso di peso)
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#90 | |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Oct 2000
Città: UK
Messaggi: 7458
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Quote:
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"Questo forum non è un fottuto cellulare quindi scrivi in italiano, grazie." (by Hire) Le mie foto su Panoramio - Google Earth |
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#91 | |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Quote:
gli attuali c-t saranno sostituiti un pò alla volta dai nuovi, nel frattempo saranno utilizzati i nuovi almeno per i testi statici e dinamici di Ares I in configurazione a 4 stadi ma con la vecchia piattaforma + la nuova LUT.
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#92 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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USSR Shuttle (Buran) | US Shuttle (Challenger)
![]() Buran nell'hangar: ![]() Buran prima del crollo: ![]() Buran dopo il crollo: ![]() Altri dettagli sul Buran: qui: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question...ft/q0153.shtml oppure qui: http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm o sul sito della Molniya, dove si trovano anche moltissime foto in alta risoluzione: www.buran.ru
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#93 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Oct 2000
Città: UK
Messaggi: 7458
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Merda, ma è venuto giù tutto l'hangar!
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#94 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2002
Città: Treviso
Messaggi: 911
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miii ma e' esploso qualcosa o e' crollato?
so che non e' la sede adatta, ma il design del sistema Shuttle russo era migliore o peggiore di quello statunitense? A mio avviso il fatto che l'orbiter non avesse i motori a bordo era un vantaggio in termini di peso (meno massa da muovere una volta distaccato l'ET se si puo' ancora chiamare cosi') e di volume (a tutto vantaggio del carico pagante..) un'ultima cosa, quanti booster aveva? dall'ultima foto sembra quasi ne avesse due per lato. EDIT: mi sono risposto da solo guardando i preziosissimi link di Gio se necessario spostiamo questo filone su un thread piu' adatto.. Ultima modifica di Octane : 17-07-2006 alle 14:53. Motivo: riflessione personale: pensa prima di scrivere.. |
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#95 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Da Nasaspaceflight.com:
NASA has 5-Seg CLV Alternatives By Chris Bergin / Daniel Handlin, 7/27/2006 10:15:00 AM NASA, world renowned for having a back up plan, has one for the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV), with a new 2x3-segment SRB (Solid Rocket Booster) CLV design, held as a concept - in case major problems with the current 5-segment Ares I booster arise. The new booster would employ twin three-segment SRBs and a liquid-fueled core stage, which - overall - would be significantly cheaper in terms of some ground processing and infrastructure costs, and perhaps easier to control. NASA is understood to have been examining this new 2x3 SRB CLV concept, due to a number of advantages over the current 5-segment CLV, with easier ground handling and control in flight. The new vehicle involves a core liquid-fueled stage with 2 J-2X engines, and twin 3-segment SRBs. These J-2X engines would be air started after launch along with the SRBs, and would serve as the core engines of the launcher. The core stage may be a derivative of the Shuttle External Tank. This vehicle is about the same height of the Shuttle and resembles a much-downsized Ares V cargo launch vehicle. A number of advantages has been identified, one being the current launch pad and crawler infrastructure will require far less modification to support this CLV than the Ares I - since it uses two SRBs and is more stable on the MLP than the tall and slender Ares I. Additionally, this CLV is more similar to both the Ares V and STS than the 5-segment CLV, offering a more direct evolution to the Ares V, along with a less complex transition from the Shuttle due to its configuration. 'The 2X3 launcher would be much wider than the 5-seg SRB, but about half the height. It offers significant schedule, development, and ground safety improvement,' noted a source. 'It also makes TVC (thrust vector control) far easier than with the one SRM (Solid Rocket Motor) on the Ares I, and makes the vehicle more stable on the MLP (Mobile Launch Platform) than the extremely tall and thin Ares I. As previously reported by this site, the Ares I vehicle will require a modified, lightweight MLP, due to the weight associated with the vehicle and its LUT (Launch Umbilical Tower). While costs can only be estimated at this stage of the development process, the 2X3 concept would at least allay such budgetary strains. 'The 2x3 would require little in the way of launch pad modifications to fly,' added the source. 'The existing MLP could be used more or less as is, with the exception of having to relocate the tail service masts. The existing FSS (Fixed Service Structure) could be used, again more or less as it now is. The biggest changes would be relocation of the hydrogen vent system arm, the oxygen vent system arm, and the crew access arm. 'The existing RSS could be used for SRB servicing, and work platform access to the entire vehicle. Modifications to the RSS would be minor, and would mostly involve removing now unused equipment. The RSS would offer the vehicle a good degree of wind and weather protection, some thing the big stick will be lacking. 'The VAB could be used largely as is, and little would have to be modified to provide work platform access for stacking and check out operations. This is not a trivial item, as modifications to the VAB is one of the big cost factors for CLV. The stacked vehicle could be moved to and from the pad with out any bracing, the thing would be far stiffer than the shuttle stack is, while the existing transporter could be used as is, with no changes at all.' However, such a concept would incur its own increased costs, given there are two boosters to build, service and recover for each flight, as opposed to the one with the Ares I. At this time the 2X3-seg vehicle hasn't advanced past the conceptual stage, as NASA proceeds as planed with the 5 segment 'big stick' CLV. However, it is fair to assume this could be a useful backup plan, should the stick suffer a major design problem. According to multiple sources in industry and at NASA, the current 5-segment Ares I booster is about 10,000 pounds overweight; a number of possible fixes to the problem have been worked on with ATK, who builds the SRBs, but all are currently seen as unworkable due to time and budgetary issues. However, this weight issue was immediately cancelled out of the overall equation, following the 6,500 lbs savings on the CEV review (DAC-2). Such savings translate into a 9:1 ration from the upper stage to the first stage, allowing for a fair amount of margin in the baseline. While NASA continues to morph its baseline to proceed with the current concept of the Ares I, should the potential back up plan of the 2X3 concept come into play, alternative benefits could be achieved. 'There would be no need for any RCS systems at all, except for those on the CEV. The 2X3 concept would also negate all the structural stiffness problems with the Big Stick,' noted the source. 'It would make required changes to the SRB TVC system a moot point. 'There is also 'engine out' capability, if a J-2X fails in the last half of the powered flight stage - this reduces the chances of a trans-Atlantic abort. Also, a lot of SRB recovery problems are eliminated, as the boosters would fly trajectories much like the current boosters on the shuttle fly, which would make the SRB recovery divers work less risky. 'The core stage could largely be made with existing ET tooling and fixturing, thus making this a truly Shuttle derived vehicle. It could be used as a cargo launcher for ISS operations, and since it is short and stubby, it could carry vehicles like the X38 to orbit.' While this is nothing more than a concept, information acquired shows its potential, especially if there's a major issue with the current Ares I design process. Ares I will suffer hiccups during the aforementioned process, but it would take a major problem - one that would cost a hugely unacceptable level of funding to correct, for alternatives to be considered at this stage. However, it is encouraging that the 2X3 concept shows that NASA is not heading down a one way street.
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#96 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2002
Città: Treviso
Messaggi: 911
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l'X38 citato nell'articolo e' questo? non era stato cancellato? sto perdendo un po' il filo con questi lifting bodies..
![]() http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/n...-038-DFRC.html |
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#97 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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il progetto X-38 non è mai stato annullato ufficialmente, diciamo che attualmente è "freezzato" per mancanza di fondi.
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#98 | |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Mar 2004
Città: Napoli
Messaggi: 10327
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Quote:
poi come ciliegina sulla torta aggiungo una piccola news che ha del ridicolo: Nasa: perso filmato uomo sulla Luna La pellicola originale smarrita negli archivi dell'agenzia (ANSA) - WASHINGTON, 14 ago - Il filmato originale con Neil Armstrong che muove nel 1969 i primi passi sulla Luna non si trova piu', smarrito negli archivi Nasa. Lo rivela il Washington Times, secondo cui la collocazione di delle videocassette e' stata dimenticata, dopo 35 anni che non veniva utilizzata. Un portavoce dell'agenzia spaziale ha spiegato che la ricerca andra' avanti fino a quando sara' necessario. Fortunatamente c'e' ancora una copia delle immagini viste il 21 luglio 1969 da 600 milioni di persone.
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#99 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Da NasaSpaceFlight.com:
New NASA footage of CEV Chris Bergin, 8/19/2006 11:58:00 PM With less than two weeks to go before NASA awards the CEV (Crew Exploration Vehicle) contract to either Lockheed Martin or Northrup Grumman/Boeing, CEV Project Manager Skip Hatfield has given a full review of the current status on the design phase of the vehicle. An 85 minute address to Constellation workers at their recent "All Hands" meeting, included new video of the interior and exterior of the crew module, including fascinating test and simulation footage. The awarding of the CEV contract will be made on August 31 - according to NASA memos - to the winning contractor, although it has not yet been announced when this will be made public. While sources have continued to note serious issues with the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV) - with an additional TIM meeting taking place at the Kennedy Space Center next week, dedicated to the CLV - the CEV has been going to plan throughout its design stages - now currently passing through DAC-2. The current work being carried out on the CEV is to ensure a blueprint of requirements and parameters can be given as guidelines for contractor to work alongside NASA in bringing the CEV to life, ahead of a 2012-2014 debut manned mission to the International Space Station (ISS). 'One of the big activities we've had going on is the run down to the final days of the contractor selection,' said Hatfield. 'The first destination for CEV is to the International Space Station - and we have a mock up for interior layout, built in Building 9 next to the current Space Station models. New video and images show the work on the inside of the CEV, which will compromise of state-of-the-art computer displays and software. 'In parallel with the interior design, we're also doing a lot of work with the cockpit design,' added Hatfield. 'We've a NASA led team that is heavily involved with working on the development of the windows. The facilities we have here at JSC are seeing the mock up of those windows - and being able to simulate the outer window views. 'In addition to that, we're also working on the conceptual cockpit instrument panel layout. We're very rapidly turning these things around here.' Hatfield himself joined the Constellation program from the role of ISS Program Integration Office Chief. With the CEV not being used for moon trips until around 2018, his experience is being called upon for the initial role of the CEV, to replace the Space Shuttle as the next generation vehicle that will carry astronauts to the orbital outpost. 'The team is working very hard on the LIDS (Low Impact Docking System),' he added, speaking about the mechanism that will use to dock with the ISS. 'We've challenged them to go ahead and get this system done - and they've picked up the pace considerably,' Hatfield added jokingly - as a time-lapse video showed workers racing around the system. Styled on Apollo, the CEV will parachute back to Earth, but while Apollo splashed down into the Pacific Ocean, the CEV will land on its airbags on a designated landing site (likely in California). Engineers have been testing simulations of the CEV landing on both land and sea. 'We have a number of landing tests that we're doing, including simulations of the CEV landing in water,' added Hatfield. 'We also carry out drop tests of various configurations, which plough up lots of dirt up at Langley (Flight Research Center - LaRC) as we do various impacts for straight down, as well as angular impacts. 'One of the neat things that happened during the testing was that we were able to do some testing on the flora and forna requirements,' as the video showed super high resolution photography of a CEV heat shield landing on the ground at LaRC, even capturing a dragonfly getting out of the way at the very last second. 'We missed him unfortunately, so we weren't able to verify any requirements,' joked Hatfield. 'But it is fascinating to see how close this is working here.' Testing and evaluations are continuing to be carried out on what will become the heat shield for the CEV, with materials that will make up the crew's barrier from the intense heat of re-entry - plus computational analysis - being put through the rigours of NASA's super computers. 'A lot of the other tests that we're doing for the Thermal Protection System (TPS) involve work at the Johnson Space Center (JSC) and out at Ames Research Center (ARC),' continued Hatfield. 'We're testing a number of materials that can be used in the heat shields. We're doing these tests as risk reduction elements ahead of bringing the contractor on board, so this has been helping us a great deal. 'A mock up at the Langley Research Center of the Launch Abort System has seen a lot of analytical work with the super computers and other analytical techniques to look at the computational flows involved with abort cases and entry cases.' As part of the evaluations, NASA is also using wind tunnel testing on scaled models of the vehicle, and also - surprisingly - firing models out of cannons, to show data on the launch abort system. 'One of the cool tests that we're doing - and being an ex-Army guy I can always get into these kinda things - is we're actually firing scale models of the CEV out of cannons, which can help validate a lot of our computational codes. 'That work is then used as part of the computational work, and then we're doing a lot of work in our wind tunnels with the entry cases as well as the ascent cases. 'There have been a series of very sophisticated models created for this work, filled with instrumentation and equipment to help to run these tests, so that we can simulate various angles of attack for entry and various flying characteristics as we're heading toward the ground. 'Fresh from that, we're able to get flow visualisations of what the aerodynamic flow is off the vehicle.' Throughout the video, which includes updates on all the elements of the Ares I-1 test vehicle, Ares 1 CLV and CEV, and even CaLV (Cargo Launch Vehicle), full scale fabricated parts can be seen, giving an idea of real life scale, which Hatfield was keen to note. 'Another mock up, up at the Glenn Research Center, is off the Service Module (SM) - this one is for the 5.5 meter diameter vehicle, so it's a little bit bigger than what the real one will be, but it gives you an idea of the scale of this hardware that we're going to be producing for this program. 'It really is quite large.' http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10687 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10688 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10689 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10690 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10692 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10691 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10694 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10695 http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/for...chmentid=10696
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#100 |
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Senior Member
Iscritto dal: Nov 2001
Città: Padova
Messaggi: 1638
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Crew Exploration Vehicle given the name Orion
NASA NEWS RELEASE Posted: August 22, 2006 NASA announced Tuesday that its new Crew Exploration Vehicle will be named Orion. Orion is the vehicle NASA's Constellation Program is developing to carry a new generation of explorers back to the moon and later to Mars. Orion will succeed the space shuttle as NASA's primary vehicle for human space exploration. Orion's first flight with astronauts onboard is planned for no later than 2014 to the International Space Station. Its first flight to the moon is planned for no later than 2020. Orion is named for one of the brightest, most familiar and easily identifiable constellations. "Many of its stars have been used for navigation and guided explorers to new worlds for centuries," said Orion Project Manager Skip Hatfield. "Our team, and all of NASA - and, I believe, our country - grows more excited with every step forward this program takes. The future for space exploration is coming quickly." In June, NASA announced the launch vehicles under development by the Constellation Program have been named Ares, a synonym for Mars. The booster that will launch Orion will be called Ares I, and a larger heavy-lift launch vehicle will be known as Ares V. Orion will be capable of transporting cargo and up to six crew members to and from the International Space Station. It can carry four crewmembers for lunar missions. Later, it can support crew transfers for Mars missions. Orion borrows its shape from space capsules of the past, but takes advantage of the latest technology in computers, electronics, life support, propulsion and heat protection systems. The capsule's conical shape is the safest and most reliable for re-entering the Earth's atmosphere, especially at the velocities required for a direct return form the moon. Orion will be 16.5 feet in diameter and have a mass of about 25 tons. Inside, it will have more than 2.5 times the volume of an Apollo capsule. The spacecraft will return humans to the moon to stay for long periods as a testing ground for the longer journey to Mars. NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston, manages the Constellation Program and the agency's Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., manages the Exploration Launch Projects' office for the Exploration Systems Mission Directorate, Washington.
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