Pixar lascia la Disney

GioFX · 31-01-2004, 21:23

Da Nytimes.com:

Pixar to Find Its Own Way as Disney Partnership Ends

BY LAURA HOLSON

Published: January 31, 2004

LOS ANGELES, Jan. 30 - Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez are no longer the most talked about bust-up in Hollywood.

Pixar Animation Studios walked away from talks Thursday to extend its partnership agreement with the Walt Disney Company, leaving both companies in unsettled situations. Disney, which has relied on films from Pixar for a significant portion of its movie profits in recent years, now must prove that it can remain a powerhouse in animation on its own, analysts and Hollywood executives said. And Pixar, which might not find another studio willing to give it the favorable terms it seeks for distributing its wares, has to show that the success of movies like last summer's blockbuster "Finding Nemo" is not too closely tied to the Disney distribution and marketing machine.

But what has left many people in Hollywood scratching their heads is whether personal or professional reasons led Steven P. Jobs, the chief executive of Pixar, to end his working relationship with Michael D. Eisner, the chief executive of Disney, and walk away from one of the most lucrative film partnerships in recent history.

Executives from Disney and Pixar have declined to elaborate on what went wrong. But several people involved in the talks, who insisted on anonymity, said a deal could have been reached if each side had been willing to compromise a little more. But the residue of several years of testy relations, and Mr. Jobs's distaste for the way Mr. Eisner conducted business with Pixar, may have amplified the typical problems of partnerships into irreconcilable differences.

Disney's task of remaining a leader in animation will not be an easy one. As little as six years ago, Disney had no significant competitors in animation and an eager partner in Pixar. But now Disney is facing two formidable foes, not only Pixar but DreamWorks SKG, both led by executives who dislike Mr. Eisner. (Like Mr. Jobs, Jeffrey Katzenberg of Dreamworks, a former Walt Disney Studios chief, clashed with Mr. Eisner over how much authority he was allowed.)

Movies produced by Pixar contribute as much as half of Disney's operating income in filmed entertainment, according to stock analysts. Disney currently distributes all of Pixar's films in exchange for 12.5 percent of the box-office revenue, and the two companies split the profits. In addition Disney owns the rights to all movies made by Pixar, including the coming "Cars'' and "The Incredibles.''

That bonanza was going to end by 2005, when the Disney-Pixar deal was set to expire, because few people on Wall Street expected Disney to retain such favorable terms. Yet most analysts counted on Disney's keeping a substantial revenue stream from distribution, if not from profit sharing. According to a report released yesterday by Richard A. Bilotti, an analyst at Morgan Stanley, Disney's annual profit starting in 2007 could drop by $30 million to $40 million without a distribution-only agreement.

Disney will also face increased competition for the animated-film audience. Despite the recent success of animated movies like "Lilo & Stitch" in 2002, Disney has not been able to replicate the success it had in the early 1990's. In the last several years, the animation unit at Disney has had a revolving door of executives in charge of the division while it eliminated nearly 1,000 jobs and closed its Florida operations. Disney and Pixar had been working on the agreement for nearly a year. While much of a framework for a distribution deal had been agreed to by December, there were still two sticking points Pixar and Disney had to resolve, two people involved in the talks said. For one, Mr. Jobs wanted sole ownership of "The Incredibles" and "Cars," two movies that Pixar had already agreed to make under the old contract. Mr. Jobs also wanted to limit the time that Disney had sole authority to distribute Pixar movies to five years, much shorter than a typical deal of 20 years.

Those demands posed problems for Disney, the two people said. For one, Disney already owned "The Incredibles" and "Cars." In addition, in the event that Disney invested in a theme park attraction based on a Pixar movie, it did not want to be in the position of not having the right to distribute the movie.

Still, executives at the two companies expected that some sort of compromise could be reached, the two people said, and the sides went away for Christmas vacation pledging to continue talks when they returned.

During the week of Jan. 12, Disney proposed a compromise that Mr. Jobs rejected, one of several he turned down in the last 10 months. "Steve was frustrated," said one of the people involved. "He was not any closer to getting a deal done than he was a month earlier."

It was an experience he had had before. After Pixar's "Toy Story" was a hit in 1995, Mr. Jobs successfully renegotiated his deal with Disney which gave Pixar a 50-50 split of all profits, but not without Mr. Jobs first threatening to end the relationship with Disney after several months of talks, according to a former Disney executive.

Later, when Mr. Jobs approached Mr. Eisner about adding sequels to the original deal, the Disney chief balked. That angered Pixar executives, particularly the creative director John Lasseter, who wanted to make "Toy Story 3," but could not because Disney owned the rights, the former executive said.

"I just think the overall feeling was Steve did not want to be in business with Michael," one person involved said. By Tuesday, Mr. Jobs decided to end the partnership talks and told the Walt Disney Studios chairman, Richard Cook, on Thursday afternoon.

Investors in Pixar, which is expected to announce earnings in the next week, responded positively to the news that the company walked away. Its share price increased $2.19, to close at $66.39. By contrast, shares of Disney fell 45 cents, to $24.

"The small studio will now go out and swim among the other Hollywood sharks for a while," said Tom Wolzien, a media analyst for Sanford C. Bernstein, referring to Pixar. "We don't know the final outcome, but somehow, it doesn't feel like this is over."

(c) 2004 - New York Times

Niente Toy Story 3 quindi, dato che la Walt Disney Company detiene i diritti dei precedenti film (per 20 anni, credo).

eraser · 31-01-2004, 21:25

brutto colpo per la disney

ominiverdi · 31-01-2004, 21:30

mai piaciuti i film pixar

GioFX · 31-01-2004, 21:32

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da ominiverdi
mai piaciuti i film pixar

stai scherzando spero...

matiaij · 31-01-2004, 21:33

Peccato...

ottimi film, sono proprio curioso di vedere il prossimo "The Incredibles"...

sto già ridendo con il trailer..

ominiverdi · 31-01-2004, 21:40

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da GioFX
stai scherzando spero...

no, ma e' una questione di gusti

poi i cartoon, salvo rare eccezioni, ormai non li digerisco piu'

Leron · 31-01-2004, 21:43

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da ominiverdi
mai piaciuti i film pixar

mai piaciuti i film disney vorrai dire

le produzioni pixar ono splendide

Guren · 31-01-2004, 21:47

era logico
oramai hanno capito che possono tranquillamente cavarsela da soli senza l'aiuto di Disney/Buena Vista.

Speriamo in un film in grado di mettere alla prova la loro bravura e magari con una trama più adulta

p.s. le trame potranno anche essere discutibili ma tecnicamente sno in pochi a poter competere con loro a lvl di c.g. (Nemo è semplicemente

)

matiaij · 31-01-2004, 21:50

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da Guren
p.s. le trame potranno anche essere discutibili ma tecnicamente sno in pochi a poter competere con loro a lvl di c.g. (Nemo è semplicemente

)

sono rimasto letteralmente a bocca aperta vedendo lo squalo...

tutti i muscoli che si muovevano sotto la pelle, un realismo esagerato!!!

ominiverdi · 31-01-2004, 21:59

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da Leron
mai piaciuti i film disney vorrai dire

le produzioni pixar ono splendide

io i cartoon li valuto per la storia, non certo per i disegni

e cmq la grafica 3D nei cartoon non mi piace proprio, sono un tradizionalista ed apprezzo solo disegni fatti a mano

pixar che ha fatto sinora? storielle x bambini, mi pare...

cmq e' una questione di gusti

Leron · 31-01-2004, 22:11

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da ominiverdi
io i cartoon li valuto per la storia, non certo per i disegni

e cmq la grafica 3D nei cartoon non mi piace proprio, sono un tradizionalista ed apprezzo solo disegni fatti a mano

pixar che ha fatto sinora? storielle x bambini, mi pare...

cmq e' una questione di gusti

pardon mi sono dimenticato l'"imho"

Guren · 31-01-2004, 22:24

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da ominiverdi
pixar che ha fatto sinora? storielle x bambini, mi pare...

infatti si è limitata a questo target perchè era legata ad un contratto di 5 film con la Disney/Buena Vista. (A bug's Life, Toy Story, Toy Story 2, Monster's Inc e Finding Nemo)

Vediamo cosa faranno ora che sono "liberi"

Billabong · 31-01-2004, 23:30

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da ominiverdi
io i cartoon li valuto per la storia, non certo per i disegni

e cmq la grafica 3D nei cartoon non mi piace proprio, sono un tradizionalista ed apprezzo solo disegni fatti a mano

pixar che ha fatto sinora? storielle x bambini, mi pare...

cmq e' una questione di gusti

I cartoni hanno subito un'evoluzione strapitosa negli ultimi anni: disney da la sirenetta e la bella e la bestia ha reinventato il genere!

Riguardo la tecnica il computer ha rivitalizzato il genere: se guardi i cartoni degli anni '80 erano parecchio limitati perchè oggi nessuno può più permettersi di pagare centinaia di persone che disegnigno per 8-10 ore al giorno, come negli anni '30.

I piani lunghi, le scene di messa, il deep canvas, ecc. hanno permesso all'animazione di dare il meglio di sè.

Basta pensare a opere come il Re Leone, Il Gobbo di Notre Dame e anche Mulan e il Principe d'Egitto.

Cmq dall'accordo anche Pixar ha perso qualcosa: nessuno può vantare una distribuzione così capillare e un marketing tanto avanzato quanto disney, sopratutto per i cartoni. Non dimentichiamo che Toy Story lo si è andato vedere perchè c'era sopra la targetta disney (all'inizio).

In secondo luogo Disney può vantare una divisione propria per il digitale. Tempo fa hanno hanno comprato Dream Quest Images e fusa con altre società minori e Walt Disney Feauture Animation. Stanno ultimando la costruzione dei nuovi studi a burbank della nuova società (che si chiama The Secret Lab) e reclutando personale.

Una prova, prima della costituzione era stata fatta con Dinosauri, e scusate se è poco!

Leron · 31-01-2004, 23:34

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da Billabong
I cartoni hanno subito un'evoluzione strapitosa negli ultimi anni: disney da la sirenetta e la bella e la bestia ha reinventato il genere!

Riguardo la tecnica il computer ha rivitalizzato il genere: se guardi i cartoni degli anni '80 erano parecchio limitati perchè oggi nessuno può più permettersi di pagare centinaia di persone che disegnigno per 8-10 ore al giorno, come negli anni '30.

I piani lunghi, le scene di messa, il deep canvas, ecc. hanno permesso all'animazione di dare il meglio di sè.

Basta pensare a opere come il Re Leone, Il Gobbo di Notre Dame e anche Mulan e il Principe d'Egitto.

Cmq dall'accordo anche Pixar ha perso qualcosa: nessuno può vantare una distribuzione così capillare e un marketing tanto avanzato quanto disney, sopratutto per i cartoni. Non dimentichiamo che Toy Story lo si è andato vedere perchè c'era sopra la targetta disney (all'inizio).

In secondo luogo Disney può vantare una divisione propria per il digitale. Tempo fa hanno hanno comprato Dream Quest Images e fusa con altre società minori e Walt Disney Feauture Animation. Stanno ultimando la costruzione dei nuovi studi a burbank della nuova società (che si chiama The Secret Lab) e reclutando personale.

Una prova, prima della costituzione era stata fatta con Dinosauri, e scusate se è poco!

a me non piacciono granchè i film della disney... ho apprezzato solo le follie dell'imperatore... e a suo tempo aladdin (solo per il genio pazzo

)
quelli fatti dalla pixar invece mi sono piaciuti parecchio (anche come trama, ecc...)

Guren · 31-01-2004, 23:38

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da Billabong
Cmq dall'accordo anche Pixar ha perso qualcosa

imho tra i due ad averci rimesso di più è stata sicuramente la disney (e onestamente vedo un periodo molto buio per loro nei prossimi anni) che perde uno dei pochissimi fiori all'occhiello.

Pixar invece non penso avrà grosse difficoltà a legarsi ad un nuovo distributore per le proprie pellicole sopratutto se decideranno di rimanere su di un target giovane.

ovviamente il tutto imho... non sono certo un grande esperto di marketing e nemmeno ho una sfera di cristallo a portata di mano

Bet · 31-01-2004, 23:41

mi spiace
mi piacevano molto i cartoni che hanno prodotto

carodani · 31-01-2004, 23:43

sono stato in visita alla pixar e posso affermare che la disney ha sempre tarpato le potenzialità della ditta di san francisco.... non vedo l'ora di vedere la prossima produzione senza la frusta disney

SPhinX · 01-02-2004, 01:44

Un augurio di buon lavoro alla pixar che fa i primi passi da sola, io sono molto fiducioso

Gyxx · 01-02-2004, 02:04

Quote:

Originariamente inviato da carodani
sono stato in visita alla pixar e posso affermare che la disney ha sempre tarpato le potenzialità della ditta di san francisco.... non vedo l'ora di vedere la prossima produzione senza la frusta disney

Veramente è di Emeryville, dall'altra parte del golden gate non è più S. Francisco ...

....

.... cmq, apparte questa capperata, penso anche io che da soli (se reggono) faranno cose molto + interessanti, o perlomeno hanno il potenziale per farlo ....

... almeno così mi raccontano tutti i miei colleghi americani che ci son stati (la casa madre della ditta x cui lavoro ha sede ad un isolato di distanza dalla Pixar

)

Ciapps

Gyxx

Fradetti · 01-02-2004, 10:53

Son contento: fino a pochi giorni fa si diceva che la Disney volesse abbandonare il disegno normale per passare completamente alla C. G.

Speriamo che tutto ciò non avvenga.

Cmq i film Pixar dal punto di vista delle storie son belli ma niente di speciale.... Shrek IMHO era su un livello molto superiore

31-01-2004, 21:23	#1
GioFX Senior Member Iscritto dal: Nov 2001 Città: Padova Messaggi: 1638	Pixar lascia la Disney Da Nytimes.com: Pixar to Find Its Own Way as Disney Partnership Ends BY LAURA HOLSON Published: January 31, 2004 LOS ANGELES, Jan. 30 - Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez are no longer the most talked about bust-up in Hollywood. Pixar Animation Studios walked away from talks Thursday to extend its partnership agreement with the Walt Disney Company, leaving both companies in unsettled situations. Disney, which has relied on films from Pixar for a significant portion of its movie profits in recent years, now must prove that it can remain a powerhouse in animation on its own, analysts and Hollywood executives said. And Pixar, which might not find another studio willing to give it the favorable terms it seeks for distributing its wares, has to show that the success of movies like last summer's blockbuster "Finding Nemo" is not too closely tied to the Disney distribution and marketing machine. But what has left many people in Hollywood scratching their heads is whether personal or professional reasons led Steven P. Jobs, the chief executive of Pixar, to end his working relationship with Michael D. Eisner, the chief executive of Disney, and walk away from one of the most lucrative film partnerships in recent history. Executives from Disney and Pixar have declined to elaborate on what went wrong. But several people involved in the talks, who insisted on anonymity, said a deal could have been reached if each side had been willing to compromise a little more. But the residue of several years of testy relations, and Mr. Jobs's distaste for the way Mr. Eisner conducted business with Pixar, may have amplified the typical problems of partnerships into irreconcilable differences. Disney's task of remaining a leader in animation will not be an easy one. As little as six years ago, Disney had no significant competitors in animation and an eager partner in Pixar. But now Disney is facing two formidable foes, not only Pixar but DreamWorks SKG, both led by executives who dislike Mr. Eisner. (Like Mr. Jobs, Jeffrey Katzenberg of Dreamworks, a former Walt Disney Studios chief, clashed with Mr. Eisner over how much authority he was allowed.) Movies produced by Pixar contribute as much as half of Disney's operating income in filmed entertainment, according to stock analysts. Disney currently distributes all of Pixar's films in exchange for 12.5 percent of the box-office revenue, and the two companies split the profits. In addition Disney owns the rights to all movies made by Pixar, including the coming "Cars'' and "The Incredibles.'' That bonanza was going to end by 2005, when the Disney-Pixar deal was set to expire, because few people on Wall Street expected Disney to retain such favorable terms. Yet most analysts counted on Disney's keeping a substantial revenue stream from distribution, if not from profit sharing. According to a report released yesterday by Richard A. Bilotti, an analyst at Morgan Stanley, Disney's annual profit starting in 2007 could drop by $30 million to $40 million without a distribution-only agreement. Disney will also face increased competition for the animated-film audience. Despite the recent success of animated movies like "Lilo & Stitch" in 2002, Disney has not been able to replicate the success it had in the early 1990's. In the last several years, the animation unit at Disney has had a revolving door of executives in charge of the division while it eliminated nearly 1,000 jobs and closed its Florida operations. Disney and Pixar had been working on the agreement for nearly a year. While much of a framework for a distribution deal had been agreed to by December, there were still two sticking points Pixar and Disney had to resolve, two people involved in the talks said. For one, Mr. Jobs wanted sole ownership of "The Incredibles" and "Cars," two movies that Pixar had already agreed to make under the old contract. Mr. Jobs also wanted to limit the time that Disney had sole authority to distribute Pixar movies to five years, much shorter than a typical deal of 20 years. Those demands posed problems for Disney, the two people said. For one, Disney already owned "The Incredibles" and "Cars." In addition, in the event that Disney invested in a theme park attraction based on a Pixar movie, it did not want to be in the position of not having the right to distribute the movie. Still, executives at the two companies expected that some sort of compromise could be reached, the two people said, and the sides went away for Christmas vacation pledging to continue talks when they returned. During the week of Jan. 12, Disney proposed a compromise that Mr. Jobs rejected, one of several he turned down in the last 10 months. "Steve was frustrated," said one of the people involved. "He was not any closer to getting a deal done than he was a month earlier." It was an experience he had had before. After Pixar's "Toy Story" was a hit in 1995, Mr. Jobs successfully renegotiated his deal with Disney which gave Pixar a 50-50 split of all profits, but not without Mr. Jobs first threatening to end the relationship with Disney after several months of talks, according to a former Disney executive. Later, when Mr. Jobs approached Mr. Eisner about adding sequels to the original deal, the Disney chief balked. That angered Pixar executives, particularly the creative director John Lasseter, who wanted to make "Toy Story 3," but could not because Disney owned the rights, the former executive said. "I just think the overall feeling was Steve did not want to be in business with Michael," one person involved said. By Tuesday, Mr. Jobs decided to end the partnership talks and told the Walt Disney Studios chairman, Richard Cook, on Thursday afternoon. Investors in Pixar, which is expected to announce earnings in the next week, responded positively to the news that the company walked away. Its share price increased $2.19, to close at $66.39. By contrast, shares of Disney fell 45 cents, to $24. "The small studio will now go out and swim among the other Hollywood sharks for a while," said Tom Wolzien, a media analyst for Sanford C. Bernstein, referring to Pixar. "We don't know the final outcome, but somehow, it doesn't feel like this is over." (c) 2004 - New York Times Niente Toy Story 3 quindi, dato che la Walt Disney Company detiene i diritti dei precedenti film (per 20 anni, credo). __________________ Cosmos Pure \| Core i7 860 \| P7P55D-E Deluxe \| 16GB DDR3 Vengeance \| HD5850 \| 2x850PRO 256GB \| 2xRE3 250GB \| 2xSpinPoint F3 1TB

31-01-2004, 21:25	#2
eraser Senior Member Iscritto dal: Nov 2001 Città: Bastia Umbra (PG) Messaggi: 6395	brutto colpo per la disney __________________ :: Il miglior argomento contro la democrazia è una conversazione di cinque minuti con l'elettore medio ::

31-01-2004, 21:33	#5
matiaij Senior Member Iscritto dal: May 2001 Città: Padova provincia Comune: Albignasego city Also Known As: Il_Maiale Professione: Ocio al rayo de la muerte! Messaggi: 1987	Peccato... ottimi film, sono proprio curioso di vedere il prossimo "The Incredibles"... sto già ridendo con il trailer.. __________________ Il_Maiale Human imaging: Philips (Achieva 1.5T, Panorama 1.0T), Hitachi (Echelon 1.5T, 2xAperto 0.4T, Airis II 0.3T, Eclos), Fuji (Profect CS) Esaote (S-Scan, G-Scan, 2xOpera, 2XE-Scan, Artoscan), - World imaging: [pentax K10D] -da 21mm f3.2 limited, -fa 31mm f1.8 limited, -fa 50 f1.4, -da* 16-50mm f2.8, alcuni -m e altra roba, canon powershot A620, casio exilim Z60 [ My photos on flickr ]

31-01-2004, 21:47	#8
Guren Senior Member Iscritto dal: Apr 2001 Città: Dongguan, GuangDong, RPC Messaggi: 1522	era logico oramai hanno capito che possono tranquillamente cavarsela da soli senza l'aiuto di Disney/Buena Vista. Speriamo in un film in grado di mettere alla prova la loro bravura e magari con una trama più adulta p.s. le trame potranno anche essere discutibili ma tecnicamente sno in pochi a poter competere con loro a lvl di c.g. (Nemo è semplicemente ) __________________ In tutta la sua vita, quante volte può riuscire un uomo a fermare le lacrime di una donna?

31-01-2004, 23:41	#16
Bet Senior Member Iscritto dal: Apr 2000 Messaggi: 433	mi spiace mi piacevano molto i cartoni che hanno prodotto __________________ http://www.cipoo.net Musica corale di pubblico dominio - spartiti-MID-MP3 Chi cerca conferme le trova sempre. (Popper)

31-01-2004, 21:30	#3
ominiverdi Registered User Iscritto dal: Jul 2003 Messaggi: 2495	mai piaciuti i film pixar

31-01-2004, 23:43	#17
carodani Registered User Iscritto dal: May 2003 Messaggi: 446	sono stato in visita alla pixar e posso affermare che la disney ha sempre tarpato le potenzialità della ditta di san francisco.... non vedo l'ora di vedere la prossima produzione senza la frusta disney

01-02-2004, 01:44	#18
SPhinX Senior Member Iscritto dal: Jan 2003 Città: Catania Messaggi: 2222	Un augurio di buon lavoro alla pixar che fa i primi passi da sola, io sono molto fiducioso __________________ "L'unica volta che sono entrato in una donna, è stato nella Statua della Libertà." - Woody Allen

01-02-2004, 10:53	#20
Fradetti Bannato Iscritto dal: Feb 2002 Città: Sanremo, Italy Messaggi: 1942	Son contento: fino a pochi giorni fa si diceva che la Disney volesse abbandonare il disegno normale per passare completamente alla C. G. Speriamo che tutto ciò non avvenga. Cmq i film Pixar dal punto di vista delle storie son belli ma niente di speciale.... Shrek IMHO era su un livello molto superiore

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