Elezioni in Iraq

[buster]

Originariamente inviato da LittleLux
Esattamente jumper, i curdi hanno impedito, con la forza, il voto ai cristiano assiri.

ma questa dove l'hai letta?

[LittleLux]

Originariamente inviato da buster
ma questa dove l'hai letta?

No, scusa, semmai da dove arrivi tu. A parte l'articolo ed il link da me postati, ne hanno parlato, giusto per tua informazione, anche nel tg3 di questa sera.

Stammi bene.

Ma ora andiamo avanti con le notizie, stavolta provenienti dal fronte sciita, per l'esattezza si parla del clero sciita di najaf.


Shi'ites begin push for Islamic constitution
By: Thanassis Cambanis on: 02.02.2005


NAJAF, Iraq - Top Shi'ite clerics, emboldened by what they perceive as a massive turnout by their followers for the coalition of Shi'ite religious parties, have already directed their attention to advocating for an Islamic constitution, several of them said in the aftermath of Sunday's election.

The turnout for the top-finishing electoral slate, a coalition of Islamist parties supported by the Shi'ite clerical establishment, has convinced leading clerics in Najaf that religious parties will have a majority in the Transitional National Assembly that will write Iraq's next constitution.

The clerics of Najaf who orchestrated the Shi'ite political party coalition say they expect a constitutional debate between hard-core Islamists, who want Koranic law to be the constitution's primary source, and moderate Islamists, who want a milder form of religious law. This debate, they say, will dwarf any challenge from secular parties.

US officials are counting on Islamists who oppose a direct role for clerics in government to prevail; otherwise, they fear, Iraq's Shi'ite majority could push the country in the direction of neighboring theocratic Iran. The officials say Iraq's Shi'ite clergy has supported democratic principles, including elections, and shown political restraint since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime.

Interviews with clerics representing the leading schools of thought in Najaf reveal a major debate between the moderate and extreme Islamists, and a growing belief that clerics will shape the constitutional debate far more than secular politicians.

Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani leads the top four Shi'ite clerics, collectively known as the marjaiya, who shape Shi'ite policy and whose fatwas, or religious edicts, are taken as literal direct orders by millions of Iraqi Shi'ites.

One of Sistani's top aides, Mohammed al-Haboubi, 42, said the marjaiya would push for a constitution of "Islamic character" that also protected the rights of Iraq's minorities.

"Public freedoms should be regulated based on the country's Islamic character," Haboubi said, citing as an example the sale of liquor.

Liquor should not be completely banned, Haboubi said, because there are some non-Muslims in Iraq. But its sale should be severely curtailed ''in consideration of the feelings of the Muslim majority."

But Sistani's is the moderate position in the internal debate over how Islamic the constitution should be. Several of his aides and the leading candidate on the Shi'ite List, Abdelaziz al-Hakim, said in interviews and public statements after the election that they want a constitution that protects the rights of all minorities in Iraq.

Ayatollahs and clerics from the more activist school believe that the constitution should include provisions on divorce, inheritance, family law, even the allocation of the national budget based on a direct reading of the Koran.

One result would be inheritance laws that would give female heirs a smaller share than male heirs, a codification of Koranic law proposed by Islamist leaders on the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council and unexpectedly approved by the entire council in December 2003. That attempt was shot down by the US administrator of Iraq at the time, L. Paul Bremer III, who refused to sign the law.

The activists include Sheikh Ali Smesim, the top aide to cleric Moqtada al-Sadr, whose radical Mahdi Army militia rose up against the US occupation in April and destabilized Shi'ite areas in the south and center of the country until a decisive battle with US Marines in Najaf in August.

Sadr commands millions of followers, mostly among young males and the poor. His rhetoric is fiercely anti-American and pro-Islamic. During recent months, imams loyal to him have ignored the electoral process and instead railed against the spread of Western immorality in Iraq.

While Iraqi government figures such as interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi espouse a secular government, the Sadr movement challenges the establishment Shi'ite clergy from the right, advocating a hard-line Islamist approach.

"The Islamists should have the central role, because the majority in Iraq are Muslims," Smesim said. "If the Islamists have a majority in the assembly, Islam will be the first and major source of the law."

In his view, the Iraqi constitution should turn to the Koran to resolve questions of divorce, inheritance, taxation, and government spending: ''Islam provides an answer for anything in society."

Muslims should learn about Western ideas, he said, so long as they don't filter into their Islamic code of law. As an example, he cited same-sex marriage as a European concept "not applicable in Muslim countries."

The Sadr movement, he said, had not yet decided whether the elections were legitimate and whether they would support the new government, or if they would continue to dismiss it - as they have Allawi's government - as an American puppet.

An American diplomat, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that several political mechanisms would put a brake on forces pushing for a theocracy, including the two-thirds vote required in the Transitional National Assembly to approve the constitution.

The diplomat also said that Turkey offered a reassuring example of Islamists with a track record of surrendering power democratically, he said.

"As a general rule I think we've got to trust these people ... unless they say 'vote for me and this is the last vote you'll ever take in your life,"' the diplomat said.

The mainstream marjaiya is eager to consolidate its position as the undisputed Shi'ite voice. Sistani's emissaries have tried to assuage American worries about fundamentalism, disowning the Iranian model in public statements and declaring that they don't want a cleric-controlled state.

Still, Iraq's clerics in the last two years have played a central role in politics unprecedented in a state that has been avowedly secular since it won independence from Britain in the 1920s. Sistani personally called for the formation of a Shi'ite electoral slate, and allowed his organization, which has representatives in every Shi'ite neighborhood in Iraq, to campaign for it.

Sistani and the marjaiya forced the US occupation authority to set a deadline for elections and then stick to it, threatening mass protests if the vote were postponed.

The marjaiya's power and influence was felt on Election Day when the Shi'ite List drew the vast majority of votes in Shi'ite areas. Across the country at poll sites, Shi'ites declared they were voting for the Shi'ite List because Sistani had ordered them to, even if personally they would have preferred another candidate.

Bookseller Amar Muslem al-Dujaili said he couldn't vote for his own preferred choice, the party of interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi.

"I couldn't disobey the marjaiya's order," he said. "Allah was watching while I voted."

Clerics say that the marjaiya has singlehandedly restrained the country's majority Shi'ites in the face of nearly two years of constant and bloody provocation from a Sunni insurgency that has marked out Shi'ites (as well as Kurds) for death.

"The marjaiya was able to restrain the Shi'ite street from turning to random killing," said Sayyed Alaadin Mohammed al-Hakim, a son and spokesman for one of the four ayotallahs who form the marjaiya. ''It had a big role in thwarting the civil war that the terrorists were trying to provoke. This should give confidence to others, especially our Sunni brothers."

He said the constitution must "maintain the Islamic identity of the country" while "keeping equality between the ethnic groups" - a delicate task, he added, for which Iraqi politicians must set aside personal ambitions.

One academic who has studied Iraq's Shi'ites for decades, Yitzhak Nakash, said he thought the establishment clerics would use their influence to keep Iraq's politicians focused on the national interest - provided the United States doesn't alienate them by limiting the new National Assembly's power.

"The marjaiya will settle for an Iraq that is neither a theocracy like the Islamic Republic of Iran nor the secular Turkey of Ataturk," said Nakash, a Brandeis University professor and fellow at the Woodrow Wilson Center.

Thanassis Cambanis can be reached at tcambanisglobe.com.

LINK

[evelon]

Originariamente inviato da Lucio Virzì
Ecco forse perchè dei sunniti, del loro stato e del fatto che non hanno potuto partecipare al voto non fotte nulla a nessuno....



C'è gentaglia che mette in giro queste merdate.

LuVi

LOL

In effetti è vero

[jumpermax]

Originariamente inviato da Lucio Virzì
Ecco forse perchè dei sunniti, del loro stato e del fatto che non hanno potuto partecipare al voto non fotte nulla a nessuno....



C'è gentaglia che mette in giro queste merdate.

LuVi

si va be ok, ma il thread ricreativo non era questo... evitare ed evitare anche quel linguaggio.

[Lucio Virzì]

Originariamente inviato da jumpermax
si va be ok, ma il thread ricreativo non era questo... evitare ed evitare anche quel linguaggio.

Quello non è un thread ricreativo, e non ha alcun senso di essere in una sezione seria.

LuVi

[jumpermax]

Originariamente inviato da Lucio Virzì
Quello non è un thread ricreativo, e non ha alcun senso di essere in una sezione seria.

LuVi

stai cercando di vincere il premio per il miglior OT della settimana? Ti dico che il post non c'entra nulla, ma sta meglio in un altro thread e tu mi quoti per parlare dell'altro thread.... (cmq per favore basta quote... argomento elezioni irakene, prego continuate )

[Lucio Virzì]

Originariamente inviato da jumpermax
stai cercando di vincere il premio per il miglior OT della settimana? Ti dico che il post non c'entra nulla, ma sta meglio in un altro thread e tu mi quoti per parlare dell'altro thread.... (cmq per favore basta quote... argomento elezioni irakene, prego continuate )

E' IT, qui si parlava di sunniti e voto, e quella *vignetta* spiega il motivo per cui molti, qui dentro, preferiscano non parlarne.
Comunque oK.

LuVi

[buster]

Originariamente inviato da LittleLux
No, scusa, semmai da dove arrivi tu. A parte l'articolo ed il link da me postati, ne hanno parlato, giusto per tua informazione, anche nel tg3 di questa sera.

Stammi bene.

Guarda, martedì ho avuto la fortuna di passare una piacevole serata con alcuni amici: tra loro un professore universitario curdo, rifugiato politico in Italia da 23 anni, che dal 2003 è tornato in Kurdistan per far rinascere l'università di Suleymania e, dall'anno prossimo, forse quella di Kirkuk. Candidato per il consiglio provinciale nelle fila del puk in queste elezioni, ha avuto la cortesia di raccontarci un punto di vista "interno" sulle elezioni stesse. Non ho ora molto tempo per scrivere tutto quello che vorrei, ma in merito al presunto osteggiamento dei curdi nei confronti degli assiro-cristiani sappi che ti sbagli di grosso. E se è stata detta una cosa del genere al telegiornale è un'assurdità bell'e buona. Gli assiro caldei sono alleati storici del puk, mentre sicuramente hanno avuto diverse incomprensioni in passato con il pdk. Il pdk ha d'altronde una storia un po' controversa, ma per queste elezioni i curdi si sono accordati per presentare una solo lista a livello nazionale che riunisce puk, pdk e partiti di rappresentanza cristiana. Questo perchè non vogliono perdere voti in sede costituente per meglio appoggiare le proprie richieste federaliste. Inoltre hanno bisogno dell'appoggio cristiano a Kirkuk, nodo delle controversie con gli arabi.
Perché mai avrebbero dovuto impedir loro di votare?

stammi bene

[LittleLux]

Originariamente inviato da buster
Guarda, martedì ho avuto la fortuna di passare una piacevole serata con alcuni amici: tra loro un professore universitario curdo, rifugiato politico in Italia da 23 anni, che dal 2003 è tornato in Kurdistan per far rinascere l'università di Suleymania e, dall'anno prossimo, forse quella di Kirkuk. Candidato per il consiglio provinciale nelle fila del puk in queste elezioni, ha avuto la cortesia di raccontarci un punto di vista "interno" sulle elezioni stesse. Non ho ora molto tempo per scrivere tutto quello che vorrei, ma in merito al presunto osteggiamento dei curdi nei confronti degli assiro-cristiani sappi che ti sbagli di grosso. E se è stata detta una cosa del genere al telegiornale è un'assurdità bell'e buona. Gli assiro caldei sono alleati storici del puk, mentre sicuramente hanno avuto diverse incomprensioni in passato con il pdk. Il pdk ha d'altronde una storia un po' controversa, ma per queste elezioni i curdi si sono accordati per presentare una solo lista a livello nazionale che riunisce puk, pdk e partiti di rappresentanza cristiana. Questo perchè non vogliono perdere voti in sede costituente per meglio appoggiare le proprie richieste federaliste. Inoltre hanno bisogno dell'appoggio cristiano a Kirkuk, nodo delle controversie con gli arabi.
Perché mai avrebbero dovuto impedir loro di votare?

stammi bene

E' accaduto. Punto. A 100.000 e passa persone è stato impedito di esprimere il proprio voto. Poi puoi pensarla come vuoi. Sei libero di credere o meno, ovviamente. Ciò non cambia quel che è successo.

Ciao

[buster]

Ancora due brevi parole sulla questione sunnita:
innanzitutto a Baghdad, l'affluenza sunnita risulta essere buona.
Poi, in base a una delle prime leggi approvate sotto una discreta pressione internazionale dal governo Allawi, il voto di domenica non varrà a maggioranza, ma per rappresentanza. Mi spiego: a grandi linee gli sciiti sono il 55%, i curdi il 25%, i sunniti il 18% e gli assiro cristiani con altre minoranze il restante 2% della popolazione irachena.
Credete davvero che tutti avrebbero acconsentito a queste elezioni se si fosse trattato di essere eletti a maggioranza? Ovviamente, no.
Quindi vi è un meccanismo elettorale per cui a tutte le etnie è garantita una rappresentanza, non direttamente dipendente dai voti presi. Diciamo che le votazioni in fase costituente servono più che altro a determinare quali partiti e quali leader avranno la rappresentanza nell'assemblea per ogni etnia.
Altrettanto ovviamente una totale o quasi assenza di voti ai sunniti renderebbe la propria delegazione di scarso peso se non addirittura politicamente delegittimata. Ma è un'eventualità che tutti sperano non si sia verificata.

[jumpermax]

Originariamente inviato da LittleLux
E' accaduto. Punto. A 100.000 e passa persone è stato impedito di esprimere il proprio voto. Poi puoi pensarla come vuoi. Sei libero di credere o meno, ovviamente. Ciò non cambia quel che è successo.

Ciao

Semmai puoi dire "penso che sia accaduto" Onestamente a me la cosa sembrava già poco credibile dopo il post di buster mi sembra abbastanza destituita di fondamento. Ogni voto cristiano in meno è un voto in meno per l'alleanza curda....non farli votare equivale a spararsi ad un piede, considerando poi che c'è la proporzionale...

[SaMu]

Originariamente inviato da LittleLux
E' accaduto. Punto. A 100.000 e passa persone è stato impedito di esprimere il proprio voto. Poi puoi pensarla come vuoi. Sei libero di credere o meno, ovviamente. Ciò non cambia quel che è successo.

Ciao

Chi glielo ha impedito?

[LittleLux]

Originariamente inviato da jumpermax
Semmai puoi dire "penso che sia accaduto" Onestamente a me la cosa sembrava già poco credibile dopo il post di buster mi sembra abbastanza destituita di fondamento. Ogni voto cristiano in meno è un voto in meno per l'alleanza curda....non farli votare equivale a spararsi ad un piede, considerando poi che c'è la proporzionale...

Ma guarda che non sono mica io a dirlo, sono proprio gli stessi cristiano assiri. E comunque, mi sa che l'articolo ed il link manco gli hai letti, per rispondere così. Poi, ovviamente, libero di pensarla come meglio credi. E con questo ho risposto anche a SaMu.

MA ora ecco una interessante intervista dell'ex ambasciatore irakeno all'ONU:


"The US has captured a goose with golden eggs (Iraq)"
Ahmed Janabi, Aljazeera.net

Iraq elections, democratic practice but ...

Wednesday 02 February 2005 - When Baghdad was occupied on 9 April 2003, the last Iraqi ambassador of Saddam Hussein's government to the UN, Muhammad al-Duri, declared that the game was over.

A journalist, university professor and statesman who served as an Iraqi delegate to the UN from 1999 to 2003, he left Iraq in 1999 to act as Iraq's ambassador to the UN in Geneva, Switzerland before he was moved to New York where he remained until he resigned after the occupation of Iraq.

Aljazeera.net: How do you feel about the elections?

Muhammad al-Duri: Despite everything that has been said about its incompetence, it is still a democratic practice. It is part of a well-thought out US plan to implement its strategy in Iraq.

But one must be aware that last Sunday's elections establish sectarianism in Iraq. So many Iraqis entered the electoral process whether as candidates or voters on a sectarian and/or ethnic basis and motives. It is very dangerous and Iraqis should reject sectarianism.

A: But according to many Iraqi voters who talked to reporters on election day, they did so because they wanted to end the state of chaos in their country and restore security and stability. Isn't that the case?

MD: I do not agree with that concept, these elections are not designed to restore security and stability. The US administration has been desperate to legalise its occupation of Iraq, but it has failed so far. This mission has become an obsession for it; especially that the war on Iraq is still protested against by EU and Arab countries.

Therefore the US is trying to legitimise its existence in Iraq by bringing in an elected parliament and a government which are fully loyal to it [US], and as such it will be able to conclude long term agreements that secure its interests and influence in Iraq.

A: As a politician and a professor of politics, do you think that the Iraqi Sunni Arabs boycotting of the elections could put the legitimacy of the process at risk?

MD: It is wrong to say that Sunni Arabs boycotted the elections. It is an attempt to ridicule a national Iraqi position that opposes the division of the country, by labelling it as a sectarian position.

The US occupation has encouraged the virtual division of Iraq into three entities. The first one is in the north, it is ethnically motivated and works to separate itself and establish an independent state (Kurdistan).

The second in the south plans to split and establish a sectarian entity backed by Iran. The third is central Iraq which for some reason carries a national vision for the future of Iraq.

Obviously the US works hard to destroy this entity, which happens to be Sunni and exists in central Iraq. But as a matter of fact, the people of central Iraq are Arab Iraqi Muslims in addition to being Sunnis. This part of the country holds a sense of national identity that rejects the foreign occupation and separation bids.

A: But boycotting elections would have delayed the formation of a national Iraqi government, parliament and constitution, don't you agree?

MD: All that you are talking about was approved by the former US administrator in Iraq, Paul Bremer.

A: And what is wrong with that if it would benefit the country?

MD: A country's constitution must be national, while Iraq's interim constitution which laid the foundation for Iraq's future constitution was put forward by Noah Feldman, a Jewish American university professor.

All the documents that rule Iraq today were made in the US, translated to Arabic and forwarded to Iraqis who could not even discuss them properly. How can a country adopt a constitution imposed by a foreign power?

Even the elections were set by Feldman's document, and thus the elections have no legitimacy because it is based on illegal documents written by an occupying force.

A: The interim Iraqi interior minister has said the US could pull out of Iraq in 18 months. What do you think of this statement?

MD: Initially, I would like to ask why this statement came on the eve of the elections? It was obviously part of the election campaign.

However, this is part of the US' exit strategy. This notion is being widely discussed in the US, not because the US genuinely wants to pull out from Iraq, but because of unexpected urban fighting.

They are spending hundreds millions of dollars on Iraqi security forces in order to put them face to face with the resistance. Actually, this money is supposed to be for the reconstruction of Iraq, but I can assure you that nothing has been reconstructed, absolutely nothing, not even in the oil sector.

At the end of the day, Iraqi officials do not speak for themselves, they just echo the US' desires and instructions. The real ruler of today's Iraq is not the president of Iraq, nor the interim prime minister; actually it is the US embassy in Baghdad.

It is unlikely that the US would voluntarily withdraw from Iraq; it has spent nearly $300 billion up to now, how is it going to get this money back if it withdraws? The US has captured a goose with golden eggs (Iraq), why would it let it go? That cannot be.

The US did not go to war with Iraq because of WMD, or links with al-Qaida. I am fully convinced that it has an agenda in my country. It also did not come to establish democracy in the country. On the contrary, if we look at what is in today's Iraq we will find nothing but division, hatred, and sectarianism.

If the US were to pull out, it will not do so unless it secures powerful bases in Iraq.

A: US bases exist in Japan and Germany; I think no one can argue that US bases hindered the development of those two countries in the post-second world war era?

MD: It is very strange that some Iraqis accept this idea. US bases in Germany and Japan were set up in different international conditions! It came after a world war involving Germany and Japan who waged an aggressive war and occupied foreign countries, and the US and its allies fought to drive out German forces from occupied Europe.

That was not the case with Iraq. There were no Iraqi forces out of Iraqi soil, and the war took place on its soil with forces which came from overseas to occupy it. How can we compare what has happened in Iraq with Nazi Germany?!

A: Regardless, why don't anti-US Iraqis wait and see?

MD: You have to choose either bread with dignity or bread without dignity. Why should we wait? What does Iraq need from the US?

It is a country rich in resources, located in a strategic position, and with a highly educated people. If the US really wants to help, there are dozens of poor and undeveloped countries out there, let it help them instead of helping a country which possesses the world's second largest oil reserve and which has achieved high rates of development before it occupied it.

A: When Baghdad fell to US forces on 9 April 2003, you said the "game is over". What did you mean by that?

MD: Many people interpreted my words that what happened was a game between Saddam Hussein and the US; actually I meant that during the 13 years of UN sanctions on Iraq, the UN was acting like a theatre.

All players were not sincere in finding a way to end the sanctions that killed millions of Iraqis. The proof for that is when the US decided to attack Iraq, everyone backed off and the US did what it wanted.

A: But there were protests around the world, and many countries did oppose the war.

MD: That was not enough.

Aljazeera

[LittleLux]

Tanto che ci sono metto anche questo:


Iraq's Sunni religious group boycotts drafting constitution
www.chinaview.cn 2005-02-03 08:59:26

BAGHDAD, Feb. 2 (Xinhuanet) -- The Muslim Scholars Association, the most influential Sunni religious group in Iraq, refused Wednesday to participate in drafting the country's permanent constitution, a prior task for the National Assembly (NA) elected last Sunday.

"We cannot participate in the formulating of a constitution under the occupation," Mohammed Bashar Fadhi, the group's spokesman told a press conference.

"The Americans try to establish sectarianism in the constitution, and the Association would not accept division
according to the sectarian shares," he stressed.

"We deeply believe that the constitution written under the occupation would be a reflection of the State Administration Law, which we had already totally rejected, and we would not participate in writing the constitution whatever it costs us," he added.

The Association which boycotted Sunday's elections issued a statement Wednesday describing the elections as incomplete in legitimacy because a big part of the Iraqis did not participate in the elections.

Sunday's voting witnessed an unexpected enthusiasm of participation, especially in the Kurdish region in the north and
the Shiite populated provinces in central south, but the turnout in the Sunni Arab areas appeared much lower.

However, the spokesman emphasized that "the Association would not deny the legitimacy of the future government."

"The interim government is a result of the occupation and did not have the legitimacy or respect of the people of Iraq. But after the elections, the future government would not be like the interim one. Nevertheless, it is the choice of a large number of the Iraqi people who trusted those representatives," "We doubt the size of the participation, but we could not ignore the feelings of our people and therefore we could not treat the future government like the interim one which lacked totally legitimacy. The future government has at least part of the legitimacy earned from the people that accepted to elect it under the occupation and gave up the right to object to the elections," he added.

In an effort to patch up differences over the political process, the interim Iraqi government has offered a reconciliatory dialogue among all ethnic and religious groups after the country's first multi-party vote in nearly half a century.
=====================================================

Insomma, la situazione è complicata mica male, nevvero?

Poi, concedetemi di postare una immagine emblematica. Si, emblematica delle condizioni in cui si sono svolte le elezioni. Alla faccia della segretezza del voto. Vabè, speriamo che non si sia votato da tutte le parti in sto modo.

[jumpermax]

Originariamente inviato da LittleLux
Ma guarda che non sono mica io a dirlo, sono proprio gli stessi cristiano assiri. E comunque, mi sa che l'articolo ed il link manco gli hai letti, per rispondere così. Poi, ovviamente, libero di pensarla come meglio credi. E con questo ho risposto anche a SaMu.

MA ora ecco una interessante intervista dell'ex ambasciatore irakeno all'ONU:

ex ambasciatore irakeno? Ok va bene Già solo le obiezioni che solleva sulla costituzione scritta da un "Jewish professor" e imposta fa capire bene il concetto... non mi stupisce che Al Jazeera stia cercando di sminuire il più possibile il risultato di quelle elezioni... qualcuno la da loro potrebbe iniziare a chiedersi come mai ai poveri irakeni oppressi dall'imperialismo USA servi del sionismo è concesso di votare liberamente e a loro no... domande pericolose... all'ex ambasciatore irakeno io magari farei domande più interessanti di queste...

[LittleLux]

Originariamente inviato da jumpermax
ex ambasciatore irakeno? Ok va bene Già solo le obiezioni che solleva sulla costituzione scritta da un "Jewish professor" e imposta fa capire bene il concetto... non mi stupisce che Al Jazeera stia cercando di sminuire il più possibile il risultato di quelle elezioni... qualcuno la da loro potrebbe iniziare a chiedersi come mai ai poveri irakeni oppressi dall'imperialismo USA servi del sionismo è concesso di votare liberamente e a loro no... domande pericolose... all'ex ambasciatore irakeno io magari farei domande più interessanti di queste...

Io sono democratico, così posto le interviste di tutti

Comunque, questa fatal domanda mi sa che se la staranno ponendo con maggior forza Egitto, Arabia Saudita, Gordania, Kuwait, e tutti quei paesi, nella regione, in cui vige un regime sunnita...e filo occidentale. Mah, forse queste elezioni saranno davvero storiche

[LittleLux]

Primi risultati parziali.


Partial Results of Iraqi Election
By: AP on: 04.02.2005


Partial election results from Baghdad and five predominantly Shiite Iraqi provinces, showing the parties with the most votes. Figures for Iraq web 's remaining 12 provinces were not available Thursday:


_BAGHDAD: 25 percent of the vote counted.


1- United Iraqi Alliance 350,069.


2- The Iraqi List 140,364.


3- Independent National Elites and Cadres 11,352.


4- Kurdish Alliance List 9,732.


5- People's Union 7,179.


_NAJAF:45 percent of the vote counted.


1- United Iraqi Alliance 157,565.


2- The Iraqi List 29,292.


3- Islamic Work Organization in Iraq - Central Command 2,005.


4- Independent National Elites and Cadres 1,937.


5- Iraqi National Democratic Coalition 997.


_KARBALA: 45 percent of the vote counted.


1- United Iraqi Alliance 86,234.


2- The Iraqi List 26,466.


3- Islamic Work Organization in Iraq - Central Command 1,393.


4- Iraqis Party 1,127.

5- People's Union 770.

_QADISIYAH: 65 percent of the vote counted.

1- United Iraqi Alliance 177,086.

2- The Iraqi List 33,922.

3- Independent National Elites and Cadres 4,583.

4- Islamic Work Organization in Iraq - Central Command 2,932.

5- Iraqis Party 2,298.

_DHI QAR: 65 percent of the vote counted.

1- The United Iraqi Alliance 281,688.

2- The Iraqi List 39,304.

3- Independent National Elites and Cadres 5,470.

4- People's Union 3,448.

5- Islamic Work Organization in Iraq - Central Command 3,172.

_MUTHANNA: 70 percent of the vote counted.

1- United Iraqi Alliance 112,128

2- The Iraqi List 25,239.

3- Islamic Work Organization in Iraq - Central Command 1,057.

4- People's Union 816.

5- Iraqi National Democratic Coalition 563.

Allawi ne esce maluccio, per il momento. Anzi direi proprio male, visto e considerato che Baghdad è considerata la sua roccaforte. Certo siamo solo al 25% dello scrutinio, però...

[LittleLux]

A quanto pare, sucessone per al Sistani. Allawi ne uscirebbe con le ossa rotte. Buona notizia, o pessima?


Early election returns: Shia party 72%, Allawi's 17%
By: TOM LASSETER, Knight Ridder Newspapers on: 04.02.2005


Early returns show Shiites way ahead

BAGHDAD, Iraq — A Shiite Muslim political group dominated by religious clerics, the United Iraqi Alliance, is leading the Iraqi national elections by a landslide, according to partial results released Thursday by the national electoral commission.

As the results trickled out, violence surged in an indication that the elections didn’t quell the insurgency, as interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi had boasted earlier this week:

• Insurgents pulled 14 Oil Ministry guards off a bus in northern Iraq late Wednesday and shot 12 dead on the side of the road, leaving two to tell others not to work for Iraqi security forces, according to the Defense Ministry.

• A suicide car bomber rammed into a convoy of SUVs being escorted by U.S. military Humvees on Baghdad’s airport road, leaving vehicles smoldering and an unknown number of casualties. Nearby, another insurgent attack killed five Iraqi policemen and an Iraqi soldier.

• A police convoy leaving Baghdad for southern Iraq was ambushed and at least one policeman was killed and five wounded.

• The death of a second Marine killed in fighting in western Iraq was announced by the American military. Both Marines died Wednesday in Anbar province, home to the restive city of Fallujah, where sounds of a fierce gun battle could be heard Thursday evening.

Also on Thursday, grumbling over irregularities in the elections grew louder. There are allegations that thousands of Christians weren’t allowed to vote in northern Iraq. Sunni Muslims were met with closed polling stations throughout central Iraq, according to anecdotal evidence. Several politicians complained Thursday that the United Iraqi Alliance used religious threats in southern Iraq to bring out the vote.

The electoral commission made public the results of 1.6 million votes across six provinces in the southern Shiite region of the country. The United Iraqi Alliance took some 1,164,770 of those votes, about 72 percent. Electoral commission officials have said that a little more than 8 million Iraqis voted throughout the country.

The partial results suggested that Allawi, a secular Shiite leader, had little hope of being a major player in the new government. His ticket brought in just 274,669 votes, or about 17 percent of the total so far. Should that relatively poor showing be confirmed in the final tally, U.S. hopes for continuity and continued leadership by a solidly secular government could be dashed.

Projections by the United Iraqi Alliance show strong voter support in other parts of the country as well, a result that could serve to widen the divide between the minority Sunni population, which apparently voted in small numbers, and the Shiites, who dominate the alliance.

Many Sunnis worry that the alliance, which has strong Iranian connections, ultimately will pursue theocracy. Alliance members deny this and say they’ll make every effort to include Sunnis in a government in which the mosque doesn’t rule the state.

The alliance ticket was formed under the guidance of the most powerful Shiite cleric in the country, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, an Iranian by birth. At the top of the ticket is Abdul-Aziz al-Hakim, the leader of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, which formed in Iran.

One of the ticket’s more secular members is Ahmad Chalabi, a one-time favorite of the White House who’s been accused of funneling classified U.S. intelligence to Iran.


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[LittleLux]

U.S. 'in for a shock'
In early election results, Shiite cleric's alliance trouncing Washington's favorite

Borzou Daragahi, Chronicle Foreign Service

Friday, February 4, 2005


Baghdad — Partial results from Sunday's election suggest that U.S.-backed Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's coalition is being roundly defeated by a list with the backing of Iraq's senior Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani, diminishing Allawi's chances of retaining his post in the next government.

Sharif Ali bin Hussein, head of the Constitutional Monarchy Party, likened the vote outcome to a "Sistani tsunami" that would shake the nation.

"Americans are in for a shock," he said, adding that one day they would realize, "We've got 150,000 troops here protecting a country that's extremely friendly to Iran, and training their troops."

The partial totals so far show the Iraqi List headed by Allawi, a secular Shiite and onetime CIA protege, trailed far behind with only 18 percent of the votes, despite an aggressive television ad campaign waged with U.S. aid. A lopsided majority of votes, 72 percent, went to the United Iraqi Alliance list, topped by a Shiite cleric who lived in Iran for many years and whose Sciri party has close ties to Iran's clerical regime. More than a third of the alliance's vote came from Baghdad, the cosmopolitan capital where Allawi had been expected to fare well.

Although the results are only from Baghdad and five southern provinces where the Shiite parties were expected to score strongly, and from only 10 percent of the country's 5,216 polling stations, the scale of the alliance's vote underscored the probability of a historic shift in the Shiites' favor from decades of Sunni minority rule in Iraq.

Safwat Rashid, a member of Iraq's Independent Election Commission, and international election officials warned observers not to read too much into the early numbers, which did not include tallies in the country's Sunni or Kurdish provinces.

Rashid said the Baghdad numbers came from "mixed" — meaning Sunni and Shiite — neighborhoods in the city where Allawi was expected to perform well. Hussein said Allawi had also performed poorly in Babil province, a relatively urbanized, mixed Shiite-Sunni area south of Baghdad.

He said the vote total and the total turnout numbers wouldn't be known for another 10 days.

Already, Western officials in Baghdad appeared to be downplaying worries about the possible victory by the alliance, topped by Abdel Aziz al-Hakim, a cleric who spent years exiled in Iran.

The alliance "is a very diverse group of people, from Westernized independents to Sunni sheikhs to people who really believe in an Islamic state, " one Western diplomat speaking on condition of anonymity said of the alliance on Wednesday. "It will be hard to maintain unity."

The election commission also released final vote tallies from overseas voters in eight countries, the United States, Britain, France, Iran, Syria, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates and Australia. The alliance won of 44 percent of the 170,000 votes cast in those countries, the Kurds 18 percent and Allawi's list 12 percent. In U.S. voting, Allawi garnered just 5 percent of the vote, less than the Communist Party total.

Some Sunni leaders said the Shiite coalition's strong showing to date did little more than validate the deep sense of alienation felt by Iraq's Sunnis, most of whom did not cast ballots Sunday.

"The Shia were determined and encouraged their supporters to vote and to register, and the Sunnis didn't care that much, either out of fear or apathy," said Adnan Pachachi, a foreign minister in the years before Saddam Hussein who is a prominent Sunni leader. "This is the story, really."

But signs also have emerged that some Sunni leaders are ready to involve themselves at least in a limited way in the country's political debate. The leaders of 13 mostly Sunni political parties that stayed out of the election agreed earlier this week that they would take part in writing a permanent constitution for Iraq.

When the vote count is final, the 275 seats in the National Assembly will be divided up among the 111 parties, individuals and coalitions that ran in the election, with each ticket getting seats according to its proportion of the vote. Each list that receives one-275th or more of the vote total gets at least a seat.

A two-thirds majority of the parliament must approve a president and two deputy presidents, who will be in charge of naming a Cabinet. The new assembly is also responsible for writing the constitution, a process that could be adjusted in order to include Sunni representatives.

Presuming the constitution is approved by referendum next autumn, new elections for a permanent government will be held by year's end.

None of the votes announced Thursday came from the Kurdish north, where heavy turnout is sure to guarantee a strong Kurdish presence in the assembly.

Kurdish political leader Jalal Talabani said he would seek the office of either president or prime minister when the legislature convenes. "We, as Kurds, want one of those two posts, and we will not give it up," Talabani, head of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and a candidate on the unified Kurdish list of candidates, told reporters.

Now that the election is over, Pentagon authorities have decided to start reducing the level of U.S. forces in Iraq next month by about 15,000 troops, down to about 135,000, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz told Congress Thursday. "I think we'll be able to come down to the level that was projected before this election," he said.

Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, testified that about 40,000 of Iraq's best forces "can go anywhere in the country and take on almost any threat." But he acknowledged that more than two-thirds of the 136, 000 members of Iraqi security forces that the United States and its allies have trained and equipped were unready to tackle the insurgency.

That uprising began rattling the nation anew Thursday as at least 26 Iraqis and three U.S. Marines died in an uptick of violence following days of post-election calm.

Insurgents stopped a minibus south of Kirkuk, ordered army recruits off the vehicle and killed 12 of them. Gunmen fired on a vehicle carrying Iraqi contractors to jobs at a U.S. military base in Baquba, killing two.

A suicide bomber struck a foreign convoy escorted by military humvees on Baghdad's airport road. Rebels attacked Iraqi police Thursday in the Baghdad suburb of Abu Ghraib, killing one policeman and wounding five, the Interior Ministry said.

One U.S. Marine was killed Thursday in Babil province, the U.S. command said. Two other Marines were killed in action Wednesday night in Anbar province.

Friday, February 4, 2005

Chronicle news services contributed to this report.


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[LittleLux]

Iraq Shiite leaders demand Islam be the source of law
By: AFP on: 06.02.2005 [13:51 ]


NAJAF, Iraq (AFP) - Iraq's Shiite leader Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani and another top cleric staked out a radical demand that Islam be the sole source of legislation in the country's new constitution.

One cleric issued a statement setting out the position and the spiritual leader of Iraqi Shiites made it known straight away that he backed demands for the Koran to be the reference point for legislation.

The national assembly formed after last month's historic elections is to oversee the drawing up of the new constitution and Sistani is the figurehead of the Shiite United Iraqi Alliance expected to become the largest single bloc.

The role of Islam has been at the heart of months of debate between rival parties and factions as well as the US-led occupation authority which administered Iraq until last June.

Sistani leads the five most important clerics, known as marja al-taqlid, or objects of emulation, who had portrayed a more moderate stance going into the election.

The surprise statement was released by Sheikh Ibrahim Ibrahimi, a representative of Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Ishaq al-Fayad, another of the marja.

"All of the ulema (clergy) and marja, and the majority of the Iraqi people, want the national assembly to make Islam the source of legislation in the permanent constitution and to reject any law that is contrary to Islam," said the statement.

A source close to Sistani announced soon after the release of the statement that the spiritual leader backed the demand.

"The marja has priorities concerning the formation of the government and the constitution. It wants the source of legislation to be Islam," said the source.

"We advise the government not to take decisions which would shock Muslims, such as the conscription of Muslims and the publication of their photos with foreign instructors," Ibrahimi went on his statement.

"We warn officials against a separation of the state and religion, because this is completely rejected by the ulema and marja and we will accept no compromise on this question.

"If they (the government) want the stability and security of the country, they must not touch the country's Islamic values and traditions," the sheikh said.

The role of Islam was a particular sticking point when an interim constitution was drawn up under the US-led occupation.

After often acrimonious debate and the threat of a veto by US administrator Paul Bremer, the final version completed in March last year said that Islam should be "a source" of legislation.

No law that "contradicts the universally agreed tenets of Islam" would be accepted, said the final draft of the so-called "fundamental law".

Sistani and the other top clerics mainly live in the central holy city of Najaf.

On top of Sistani and Fayad, there are the ayatollahs Bashir al-Najafi and Mohammad Said Hakim. A fifth, Ayatollah Kazem al-Hairi, lives in Iran.

IRAQ-VOTE-POLITICS-SHIITE-CELEBRATE

(DV)

BAGHDAD (IRAQ), 02/05 (AFP) - Iraqi Shiite muslims celebrate their "169" party victory inside Buratha Shiite mosque decorated with candles, the symbol of the party, in Baghdad 05 February 2005. According to results announced 04 February, the United Iraqi Alliance list backed by Iraq's Shiite spiritual leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, has over 2.2 million out of 3.3 million votes counted. AFP PHOTO/MARWAN NAAMANI

Insomma, mi verrebbe da dire un bel "ve l'avevamo detto". Ma la storia è complessa e lunga. Comunque, nel caso, e credo lo sia, chi è causa del proprio mal pianga se stesso!