[Space] ESA - Mars Express Mission - Update thread

[gpc]

Ma allora questo radar l'hanno messo in funzione o no?

[GioFX]

non ancora... hanno deciso di posticiparlo per avere il tempo di fare tutte le dovute simulaizoni delle oscillazioni che ci sarebbero con il deployment dell'antenna Marsis di 40m... cmq sono sicuri che non ci saranno problemi particolari.

[gpc]

Originariamente inviato da GioFX
non ancora... hanno deciso di posticiparlo per avere il tempo di fare tutte le dovute simulaizoni delle oscillazioni che ci sarebbero con il deployment dell'antenna Marsis di 40m... cmq sono sicuri che non ci saranno problemi particolari.

Ah ecco... perchè avevo capito che il ritardo sarebbe stato di una settimana, ma qui il tempo passa ma non si ha nessuna notizia... sono curioso di vedere che risultati da!

[gpc]

Niente più notizie... niente più foto... si sono addormentati?

[GioFX]

[GioFX]

Lessons learnt from Beagle 2 and plans to implement recommendations from the Commission of Inquiry

24 May 2004

The Mars Express spacecraft, carrying the Beagle 2 lander, was launched on 2 June last year, arriving in the vicinity of Mars in December. The separation of Beagle 2 from Mars Express occurred on 19 December. The satellite continued its mission with its successful insertion into a Mars orbit on 25 December, the day on which Beagle 2 was due to land.

The first radio contact with Beagle 2 was expected shortly after the scheduled landing time but no signal was received. Many radio contacts were attempted over the following days and weeks, but without result. By early February it became clear that there was no prospect of communicating with Beagle 2 and a joint ESA/UK inquiry was set up to investigate the circumstances and possible reasons that prevented completion of the Beagle 2 mission.
The report was commissioned jointly by Lord Sainsbury and ESA’s Director General, Jean-Jacques Dordain. It is not therefore a public inquiry. The Commission of Inquiry was led by ESA’s Inspector General, René Bonnefoy, with David Link (former Director at Matra-Marconi Space, now EADS-Astrium(UK)) as co-Chairman.

The Commission of Inquiry, which included senior managers and experts from within Europe and also NASA and Russia, held several meetings in the UK and in ESA, interviewing the key actors, directors, managers, scientists, and engineers, who participated in the development of Beagle 2. The report has been submitted to the UK Minister for Science and Innovation and the Director General of ESA and accepted. No single technical failure or shortcoming was unambiguously identified but a few credible causes for Beagle 2’s loss were highlighted. More importantly, the Board made it clear that there were programmatic and organisational reasons that led to a significantly higher risk of Beagle 2 failure, than otherwise might have been the case.

The scope of the Inquiry covered a wide range of important issues of concern to the UK, ESA and other Member States in ESA. Some of these matters are necessarily confidential between governments and the Agency and cannot be released.

Furthermore, the development of Beagle 2 entailed close working relations between many firms in the UK. Many of those firms invested their own funds in the project and formed relations which remain commercially sensitive.

Although deciding that the Report should remain confidential, we believe it is important that the full set of Recommendations is published together with our appreciation of lessons learnt. You will, of course, have an opportunity to hear at first hand about our plans to implement those Recommendations and to ask questions.

Lessons learnt

The Inquiry Board has not singled out any act by any individual, nor any technical failure that in itself could have been the unique cause of failure of Beagle 2. In the Inquiry Board’s work, many individual decisions were analysed. However, there are institutional lessons to be learnt, many of which flow from treating the lander as an instrument, which at the time was the standard practice.

The Commission has proposed a set of 19 Recommendations on which the UK Government, ESA and the Beagle 2 project team are agreed. They can be grouped in three parts:

• those concerning best practice when selecting a complex project – such as the Beagle 2 lander – assessing its overall benefits and risks, planning means to manage and mitigate risks and ensuring that it is fully integrated within the overall management of the mission;
• those concerned with technical factors which may have contributed to the loss of Beagle 2, for example specification, development and testing of the airbags;
• and those concerning technical enhancements for future landers which would have aided our understanding of events during Beagle 2’s descent and subsequently improved our ability to find it or reactivate it.

In 1997, due to the failure of an earlier Russian mission, equipment was available for a mission to Mars. At the same time it was known that Mars would be at a point of closest approach to Earth during the summer of 2003. As a result ESA Member States selected the Mars Express mission, though the schedule was tight, and ESA invited proposals to consider the addition of a lander. Three European teams proposed landers and Beagle 2 was selected. It is now clear that the very high potential scientific benefits of the project may have contributed to a collective institutional underestimate by us all of the corresponding means to identify and mitigate risks that arose during development and subsequently proved difficult to resolve due to the very tight financial, mass and schedule constraints imposed by the rigid schedule set by that closest point of approach, and by overall budget constraints.

Implementation plan
[list=1][*]ESA will return to Mars but next time the approach must have the capacity to handle the complexity, and scientists, engineers and industry will need to agree from the start the formal partnership arrangements and responsibilities that will apply throughout;[*]Any future complex instrument or lander must be implemented under the same management process as the mission spacecraft. BNSC has already led the way in implementing such a new policy with the European MIRI instrument for the James Webb Space Telescope. Nevertheless, scientific groups will be fully integrated into those overall arrangements;[*]A dedicated Exploration Directorate in ESA has been set up to coordinate technical requirements and approaches Europe-wide and will take responsibility for securing European capabilities for crucial elements for planetary missions;[*]Confidential Debriefing will be given to all scientific groups and industrial companies in Beagle 2 on request;[*]ESA Member States will be confidentially debriefed on the implications of this new approach in future programmes and to partnership arrangements.[/list=1]

The recommendations of the Commission of Inquiry:

Recommendation 1
Future lander missions should be under the responsibility of an Agency with appropriate capability and resources to manage it. The lander/orbiter mission should be managed as an integrated whole. Nationally-funded science instruments should be included in the lander on the same basis as on the orbiter.

Recommendation 2
For future science payloads which are critical to overall mission success or have a very high public profile, the ESA Executive should make a formal, comprehensive assessment of all aspects of the proposals including technical, management and finance, and advise Space Science Policy Committee (SPC) accordingly before acceptance. If the assessment is not positive, ESA should advise the SPC not to accept the proposal.

Recommendation 3
Sponsoring Agencies of nationally-funded contributions to ESA projects should ensure that the required financing is committed at the outset to meet the estimated Cost at Completion and require that a structured development programme is established.

Recommendation 4
In addition to the ESA-led reviews of interfaces, formal Project Reviews of nationally-funded contributions to ESA missions should be undertaken by the sponsoring Agency to a standard agreed with ESA and should cover the entire project.

Recommendation 5
When an independent review of a nationally-funded project, such as the Casani review of Beagle 2, is commissioned, it is essential that ESA and the Sponsoring Agency ensure that its recommendations are properly dispositioned and those which are agreed are actioned and followed up through a formal process.

Recommendation 6
For future projects, Heads of Agreement or similar formal arrangements between co-operating entities, ESA, and national sponsors, should be put in place at the outset of projects and should include formal consultations at key stages of the projects to jointly consider its status.

Recommendation 7
Fixed price contracting should be avoided solely as a mechanism for controlling costs, and used only where the sponsor and contractor are in alignment on the requirements and scope of the work and the sharing of risks between them. Both parties should be confident that the contractor has sufficient margins to manage his uncertainties and risks.

Recommendation 8
For future high-profile/high-risk projects, ESA and any Sponsoring Agency should manage the expectations of the outcome of the project in a balanced and objective way to prepare for both success and failure.

Recommendation 9
At the start of a programme, the funding authority (ies) should require that there is system-level documentation. This is necessary to provide all partners with the technical requirements for the project and sufficient design description and justification such that the margins and risks being taken in each partner’s area of responsibility are visible.

Recommendation 10
Future planetary missions should be designed with robust margins to cope with the inherent uncertainties, and they should not be initiated without adequate and timely resources to achieve that.

Recommendation 11
Future planetary entry missions should include a minimum telemetry of critical performance measurements and spacecraft health status during mission critical phases such as entry and descent.

Recommendation 12
For future planetary entry missions, a more robust communications system should be used, allowing direct commanding of the lander for essential actuations and resets without software involvement – enabling recoveries in catastrophic situations.

Recommendation 13
Planetary probe missions involving high-level shocks from pyros and other events should undergo representative shock environmental testing at system level.

Recommendation 14
Adequate and realistic deployment tests should be performed, and sufficient time and resources must be available in the development of a new planetary mission.

Recommendation 15
Elimination of internal connectors for mass saving should be avoided if at all possible. But if unavoidable, a stringent system of check and independent crosscheck should be followed during the final wiring operation.

Recommendation 16
A back-up for the entry detection event (T0) must be included in the design of planetary entry probes.

Recommendation 17
Future planetary entry missions should include a release of the back cover and front shield, which is aerodynamically stable and analytically predictable to avoid uncontrolled contact of front shield with the lander.

Recommendation 18
Sufficient difference between ballistic coefficients of all separated items, e.g. back covers assembly and the main parachute, or other positive means, must be ensured to exclude collision after separation.

Recommendation 19
Adequate competencies in air bag and parachute technology must be available for future European planetary missions, making best use of existing expertise e.g. in USA and Russia.

Notes to editors
[list=1][*]The Beagle 2 inquiry was launched on February 11 by Lord Sainsbury, UK Minister for Science and Innovation, and Jean-Jacques Dordain, ESA Director General, to investigate the circumstances and possible reasons that prevented completion of the Beagle 2 mission. Such inquiries are routine in the event of unsuccessful space missions.[*]The Inquiry Commission was set up jointly between ESA and BNSC and was chaired by the ESA Inspector General. The Commission included senior managers and experts from Europe and also from NASA and Russia. Its remit was to:
- assess the available data/documentation acquired during development, integration and testing of the Beagle 2 lander on Earth and that pertaining to the cruise phase operations prior to release of the spacecraft to Mars;
- analyse the programmatic environment (i.e. decision processes, funding level and resources, management and responsibilities, interactions between the various entities) throughout the project;
- identify possible issues and shortcomings, both programmatic and technical, in the above and in the approach used, which might have contributed to the loss of the mission.

All members of the Commission have signed a non-disclosure agreement.[*]The Beagle 2 project was led by the Open University, providing the science lead, and EADS-Astrium, the prime industrial contractor responsible for the main design, development and management of the lander. [*]The Beagle 2 lander was funded through a partnership arrangement involving the Open University, EADS-Astrium, the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI), the Particle Physics and Astronomy Research Council (PPARC), the Office of Science and Technology and ESA. Funding also came from the National Space Science Centre and the Wellcome Trust. UK principal investigators for Beagle 2 in the UK came from the Open University (gas analysis package), Leicester University (environmental sensors and x-ray spectrometer) and Mullard Space Science Laboratory (imaging systems).[*]BNSC is a partnership of Government Departments and Research Councils with an interest in the development or exploitation of space technologies. BNSC is the UK Government body responsible for UK civil space policy, to help gain the best possible scientific, economic and social benefits from putting space to work.[/list=1]

BNSC
Press Enquiries: 020 7215 0806/0905
(Out of hours: 020 7215 3234/3505)
Public Enquiries: 020 7215 5000
Textphone (for people with hearing impairments): 020 7215 6740
http://www.bnsc.gov.uk

ESA
Franco Bonacina, Head of Media Relations Division
Tel. +33(0)1 53 69 7155
Fax. +33(0)1 53 69 7690

[gpc]

Ma del radar s'è poi saputo più niente?

[gpc]

Uffaaaaaaa.....

http://www.esa.int/export/SPECIALS/M...EO3VQUD_0.html

MARSIS deployment on hold


24 June 2004
The deployment of the MARSIS antenna on ESA's Mars Express spacecraft has been delayed until later this year.

The Mars Advanced Radar for Subsurface and Ionosphere Sounding (MARSIS) will seek evidence of underground water, either frozen or liquid, up to five kilometres beneath the surface of the Red Planet.
The antenna consists of two 20-metre long hollow booms that are folded up like a concertina on board Mars Express. When a pyrotechnic mechanism is fired, the booms will spring out like a jack-in-a-box.

The antenna was due to be deployed from the spacecraft on 20 April. This was delayed due to concerns that the antenna might swing back with a greater range of motion than expected after opening, possibly hitting the spacecraft.

Data from the most recent mathematical models carried out by the antenna's manufacturer, Astro Aerospace, USA, suggested the instrument's deployment might have more movement than previously thought.

MARSIS scientists have since been reviewing the Astro Aerospace data and making their own measurements to re-assess the likely behaviour of the antenna in space. At the end of this review period, they will make their recommendations to the ESA, after which the final decision on whether to deploy will be taken.

[GioFX]

bah... dipendiamo da un'antenna yankee...

[gpc]

Originariamente inviato da GioFX
bah... dipendiamo da una sonda yankee...

Eh vabbè ma anche loro, fare un'antenna che si apre con l'esplosivo (pyrotechnic mechanism)... ma che delicatezza eh... trasmettiamo le immagini in morse intanto che ci siamo...

[gpc]

Comunque è il radar americano, non la sonda

[GioFX]

Originariamente inviato da gpc
Comunque è il radar americano, non la sonda

lapsus, ovviamente...

[von Clausewitz]

Originariamente inviato da gpc
Niente più notizie... niente più foto... si sono addormentati?

ma soprattutto niente scoperte d'una qualche rilevanza
come ho detto altre volte tutta questa mobilitazione di risorse per marte mi è sembrata sproporzionata
prima che gio mi accusi di essere antieuropeo, parlo sia delle missioni europeee che americane come già sottolineato in passato

[gpc]

Originariamente inviato da von Clausewitz
ma soprattutto niente scoperte d'una qualche rilevanza
come ho detto altre volte tutta questa mobilitazione di risorse per marte mi è sembrata sproporzionata
prima che gio mi accusi di essere antieuropeo, parlo sia delle missioni europeee che americane come già sottolineato in passato

Beh oddio "d'una qualche rilevanza" direi che è una parola grossa, eh...

I rover hanno dimostrato anche solo per le capacità di cui sono dotati di essere un balzo in avanti nell'esplorazione non da poco.
Gli studi che hanno fatto sul campo non sono mai stati fatti prima da nessuna sonda.
Hanno trovato le prove della presenza di acqua su marte.
Continuano a funzionare e fornire nuovi dati mesi dopo la fine del periodo per cui erano stati progettati.
Se non è niente per te...
In più ci metti che MER sta fornendo le foto più dettagliate mai fatte ad un pianeta che non sia la terra, è stata studiata nel dettaglio l'atmosfera (ai bassi livelli dai rover -compito per il quale NON erano stati progettati- e agli alti dalla sonda), e si partirà prima o poi anche col MARSIS.

Certo, se tu pensi che grazie a tutto questo domani ti alzi e ti è cambiata la vita, resterai deluso. Ma la tecnologia, l'esplorazione e la scienza non funziona così.

[von Clausewitz]

Originariamente inviato da gpc
Beh oddio "d'una qualche rilevanza" direi che è una parola grossa, eh...

I rover hanno dimostrato anche solo per le capacità di cui sono dotati di essere un balzo in avanti nell'esplorazione non da poco.
Gli studi che hanno fatto sul campo non sono mai stati fatti prima da nessuna sonda.
Hanno trovato le prove della presenza di acqua su marte.
Continuano a funzionare e fornire nuovi dati mesi dopo la fine del periodo per cui erano stati progettati.
Se non è niente per te...
In più ci metti che MER sta fornendo le foto più dettagliate mai fatte ad un pianeta che non sia la terra, è stata studiata nel dettaglio l'atmosfera (ai bassi livelli dai rover -compito per il quale NON erano stati progettati- e agli alti dalla sonda), e si partirà prima o poi anche col MARSIS.

Certo, se tu pensi che grazie a tutto questo domani ti alzi e ti è cambiata la vita, resterai deluso. Ma la tecnologia, l'esplorazione e la scienza non funziona così.

parlavo del numero di missioni e alla luce di ciò mi sembra proprio di si
le prove che prima c'era l'acqua su marte si avevano da decenni, solo che ancora ci si arrabbata a capire dove è finita tutta sta acqua visto che non c'è piu (evaporata? un pochetto si è salvata nel sottosuolo?) eccezion fatta per quella attorno ai poli mista a ghiaccio secco, della cui presenza si avevano riscontri comunque anche per essa da decenni
mi parli che da mesi tramettono dati, ma i vetusti viking lo avevano fatto per anni
tutta questa mobilitazione a mio parere travalica la conoscenza astronomica di un pianeta che pur con le sue peculiarità è un deserto ghiacciato quasi morto geologicamente da centinaia di milioni di anni
beh poi sulll'atmosfera non mi dire che ci sono state novità clamorose (se poi si vuol far passare per clamorosa la presenza di una particella di metano su qualche miliardo, cosa peraltro che dovrà essere confermata)
un mezzo buco nell'acqua a mio parere (oddio, non dovrei dire una cosa simile, ancora un ghiacciolo d'acqua marziano me lo devono far vedere
una qualche idea su come funziona la scienza, l'ossrvazione astronomica e la tecnologia ce l'ho, ma non mi dire che inizia e finisce mandando dei rover su marte a cercare acqua che non c'è più e che verosimilmente qualche miliardo d'anni fa c'era
i budget e le risorse sono limitati. e a mio parere sarebbe stato più proficuo utilizzarli e dirottarli verso l'osservazione extrasolare

ps MARSIS cos'è?

[GioFX]

Originariamente inviato da von Clausewitz
ps MARSIS cos'è?

ma leggere la prima pagina, mai eh?

cmq è sempre esilarante leggere le certezze che hai in materia... a questo punto cancelliamo pure tutta la storia dell'esplorazione terrestre, tanto si conosce già tutto, eh?

[von Clausewitz]

Originariamente inviato da GioFX
ma leggere la prima pagina, mai eh?

cmq è sempre esilarante leggere le certezze che hai in materia... a questo punto cancelliamo pure tutta la storia dell'esplorazione terrestre, tanto si conosce già tutto, eh?

boh ho dato uno sguardo veloce e non ho trovato riscontri
una risposta in due parole no eh?
sul resto, beh sai la differenza principale è che noi sulla terra ci viviamo e ci continueremo a vivere almeno finchè, e se, non ci estingueremo come specie, per cui ogni notizia sull'habitat in cui viviamo è prezioso per questo
marte è un deserto gelato e rarefato che in confronto l'everest è ideale per la villeggiatura, su cui non vivrà mai alcuna specie vivente basata sulla chimica del carbonio, ma al massimo fra qualche decina d'anni l'uomo ci farà una scampagnata per concludere, come è ovvio, che è assolutamente invivibile

[GioFX]

Originariamente inviato da von Clausewitz
boh ho dato uno sguardo veloce e non ho trovato riscontri
una risposta in due parole no eh?

e i link non servono a niente?!?

bah...



Marsis is one among a number of experiments on the ESA Mars Express orbiter. It is a radar system designed to penetrate the upper surface of Mars in order to search for discontinuities indicative of subsurface ice or water. Scientists in the Institute participate in the preparation of experiments with groups from JPL and the University of Rome and in the planning of analysis and interpretation of the data to be collected.

Science objectives of MARSIS

Marsis is a radar instrument carried on Mars Express designed for the primary task of searching for water, water-ice or permafrost layers believed to exist at some depth under the visible surface of Mars. There is much evidence that water once was plentiful on Mars. There are stream lined islands formed by flowing water, flow patterns reminiscent of wadis in Earth deserts, and outflow channels thought to have been formed by sudden out-rush of subterranean water. Secondary tasks are the measurement of the scattering properties of the surface of Mars at the long wavelengths required for penetration into the surface yet short enough to pass through the martian ionosphere. The electron density and temperature in the topside ionosphere may also be studied as a secondary task by using the radar as a topside sounder or by using the radar antenna system for in situ impedance measurements. Estimates of Martian water ranges from a 50 to a 500 m deep planet-wide ocean. No obvious mechanism for the escape of water from the planet has been devised. Jean's escape of water via the atmosphere is very slow (of the order of 3 m over 5 Gy). Assuming that Mars was formed with approximately the same relative amount of water as the Earth, it must be assumed that a substantial fraction of this water remains on Mars in one form or another. It is commonly believed to be bound as ice in the polar caps and, in the ground, as ice, icy permafrost or even as water. There is indirect evidence for widespread presence of ice, permafrost or liquid water through the existence of rampart craters, terrain softening, chaotic terrain and thermokarst. Marsis will attempt to directly confirm the presence of sub-surface water.

MARSIS instrument description

The proposed instrument is a multi-frequency nadir-looking pulse limited radar sounder and altimeter, which uses synthetic aperture techniques and a secondary receiving antenna to isolate subsurface reflections. The radar can be effectively operated at any altitude lower than 800 km. The instrument consists of two antenna assemblies and an electronics assembly. The antenna assembly consists of a primary dipole antenna, parallel to the surface and perpendicular to the direction of motion, used to receive echoes reflected by the Martian surface and subsurface, and a secondary monopole antenna, oriented along the nadir, used to receive only off-nadir surface returns. Maximum penetration depths are achieved at the lowest frequencies. On the dayside of Mars, the ionosphere does not allow the use of frequencies < ~3.5 MHz. To optimize subsurface probing depths operations on the nightside of Mars are desirable. Four frequency bands are centered at 1.9, 2.8, 3.8 and 4.8 MHz. In night side operations it will be possible to use 1.9 MHz and 2.8 MHz bands to estimate the dielectric properties of the subsurface detected interfaces and the 3.8 MHz and /or 4.8 MHz for further reduction of the surface clutter. On day side operations the 3.8 MHz and 4.8 MHz frequencies will be able to penetrate the ionosphere and will be used to estimate the dielectric properties. Up to four interleaved channels of data can be processed and recorded simultaneously. Under nominal operations, these channels will consist of main antenna and secondary antenna receive streams, each at two frequencies. A "chirp" signal, with a bandwidth of 1 MHz, will be generated and transmitted at each operating frequency for a period of about 500 microseconds. The instrument then switches to a receive mode and records the echoes from the surface and subsurface for the expected duration. The total transmit-receive cycle lasts on the order of a few milliseconds, depending on altitude. The received signals are down-converted, passed to a digital-to-analogue converter, and compressed in range and azimuth. The azimuth integration accumulates about 1 second of pulses, resulting in an along-track footprint size of 5 km. The cross-track footprint size is on the order of 10 km.

To ensure the greatest possible penetration of the electromagnetic waves into the ground the wavelength must be chosen as long as possible, only limited by the requirement that the waves penetrate the ionosphere without appreciable distortion to reach the ground. A secondary task of the radar system is to examine changes in reflectivity and scattering properties of local areas on the surface, and to relate them to optical images and other data in order to understand the nature of different terrain forms.

Another secondary task which may also be assigned to the radar system is to probe the top- side ionosphere. The topside of the ionosphere is now known only from occultation experiments, which are limited by geometry to near the morning or evening terminators. The study of the ionosphere is of considerable interest for the understanding of the interaction of the solar wind with a weakly magnetized planet, particularly in view of the recent discovery of localized magnetic field structures. These studies were a major task in the Mars96 mission which Mars Express is intended to partially replace. In addition it is intended to use the radar antenna as an impedance probe to measure the local electron density and temperature in the AIM experiment.

The radar system proposed will operate in the frequency range 0.2 to 7.5 MHz into a dipole antenna which will be shorter than a half wave dipole except near the upper end of the band. The radar will operate in a stepped frequency mode where the reactive part of the antenna impedance is tuned out instantaneously with an active network to insure as good antenna match as possible. The resistive part of the antenna will be matched in four bands only. The stepping through any one of the three bands in some 100 steps, depending on altitude, will take 50 to 100 msec. The received signals will be sampled at each frequency, and the sampled data for each step cycle (frequency sweep) will be stored for transmission to Earth where it will be processed for removal of surface clutter and for decoding the signal into a power versus depth profile. The transmitted signals in subsequent frequency step cycles must be so related that coherent combinations of the samples can be made. As the duty cycle of the radar will be held close to 50%, it is necessary to also include a special mode of operation, to determine the approximate time delay of the surface echo, and to adjust the repetition rate of the radar to place the echoes appropriately in the transmitter-off intervals. In addition orbit information is expected to be available in the spacecraft to help adjust repetition rate and pulse lengths along the orbit. The radar transmitter, the receiver and the tunable antenna systems are available as spare flight models from the Mars96 Long Wavelength Radar (LWR) with some modifications. The control and the data storage system must be reprogrammed or modified in order to adjust it to the new modes of operation of the radar described in Section 3.

A special mode to determine the time delay versus frequency in the lower frequency bands will be used to detect the echoes from the topside of the ionosphere, and will be converted to topside electron density profiles. The data thus obtained will be complementary to the measurement of electron content from ground stations through the total electron content method, to the observations with a riometer (relative ionospheric opacity meter) of the ionospheric absorption from the ground, both measurements proposed for landers in the Mars Express mission, and to the measurements in situ of the electron density and temperature using the radar antenna as an impedance probe. The impedance probe measurements are included as a part of the current proposal. The measurement of atmospheric water vapor content by microwave emission observations proposed for the mission will also bear on the water budget of

MPAe contribution and MARSIS investigators

The responsibility for the development of the radar system and for the coordination of the modifications of the radar system and its operation will rest with MPAe, with key partners in IRE/RAS and IKI/RAS (Russia), CNRS CEPHAG and SA (France) and ESA/SSD (the Netherlands).

Informazioni più tecniche qui: http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/obj...odylongid=1601

sul resto, beh sai la differenza principale è che noi sulla terra ci viviamo e ci continueremo a vivere almeno finchè, e se, non ci estingueremo come specie, per cui ogni notizia sull'habitat in cui viviamo è prezioso per questo

E ALLORA? non dobbiamo interessarci ad altro? hai idea di che significa la parola SCIENZA e l'interesse per la CONOSCENZA?!?

marte è un deserto gelato e rarefato che in confronto l'everest è ideale per la villeggiatura, su cui non vivrà mai alcuna specie vivente basata sulla chimica del carbonio, ma al massimo fra qualche decina d'anni l'uomo ci farà una scampagnata per concludere, come è ovvio, che è assolutamente invivibile

A parte che è comico come pensi di sapere tutto su marte, allora va ad insegnare in qualche istituto superiore... Cmq tu basi tutto solo sulla colonizzazione da parte dell'uomo chissà quando... a parte che dubito che tu conosca tutto di ciò che si sta studiando e analizzando si pianeti del sistema solare per capire se vi sia o vi sia stata vita in passato, ma poi, mica esiste solo questo sai...

[von Clausewitz]

Originariamente inviato da GioFX
e i link non servono a niente?!?

bah...

ah me n'ero dimenticato è un aggeggio della sonda europea, sai non è che le abbia seguite molto ste missioni

E ALLORA? non dobbiamo interessarci ad altro? hai idea di che significa la parola SCIENZA e l'interesse per la CONOSCENZA?!?

boh adesso che gridi a fare, ho detto evidentemente non leggi che una parte delle risorse a mio parere sproporzionate su marte le avrei dirottate su altri progetti d'osservazione principalmente extrasolari
non è che la scienza e tantomeno quella astronomica cominci e finisca col contare tutti i ciotoli marziani e scoprire prima o poi un ghiacciolo d'acqua conservato alla temperatura di meno 100 gradi centigradi

A parte che è comico come pensi di sapere tutto su marte, allora va ad insegnare in qualche istituto superiore... Cmq tu basi tutto solo sulla colonizzazione da parte dell'uomo chissà quando... a parte che dubito che tu conosca tutto di ciò che si sta studiando e analizzando si pianeti del sistema solare per capire se vi sia o vi sia stata vita in passato, ma poi, mica esiste solo questo sai...

adesso mi vuoi far passare per uno che è passato di qui asserendo di sapere tutto su marte, ma stiamo sempre al solito punto, sto discutendo con la tua dialettica creativa
boh, il discorso sulla vita passata mica l'ho capito molto e nemmeno perchè tu creda che io pensi esista solo quello, ariboh

ops ho appena visto un ufo marziano

[gpc]

Rispondo dopo perchè non ho tempo...
Comunqe von Clausewitz, l'esplorazione spaziale non è mai stato qualcosa che ti ha cambiato la vita da un giorno all'altro.
Anche se queste missioni non fossero nulla di epocale come dici tu (sbagliando), servono per poterne pianificare altre di più "sensazionali".
Comunque poi ti rispondo con più calma appena posso...