*** DEUS-EX 2 DEMO *** ma...

[Xilema]

Altre brutte coe...




Or is this demo very worrisome and dissapointing?

First the control, it feels very odd, 'floaty' as some people here have described it, it feels like a console

Second, it takes 5+ shots in the head with a pistol to take people down, this makes absolutely no sense at all whatsoever from either a gameplay or realism standpoint.

The interface (espescially as it relates to inventory) is atrocious, utterly unacceptable and need to be put down like a sick dog.

----

Then there are the minor issues.

The texture resolution is really low (could be just because of it being a demo) this doesnt bother me so bad, but could be nicer.

Weird graphical artifacts on ati cards (me and 2 suitemates with radeon 9800 pros have noticed these.

You cant get drunk

the ammo system just feels really strange without having to reload, but still seeing 'clips' on your hud?

[TheRipper]

Dove le becchi queste reviews? da un forum?

[Xilema]

Altra gente scontenta...




System Specs:
Athlon XP 2800+
1 gig ram
Radeon 9700 Pro (demo doesn't appear to support multi-monitors, bummer)
Ran perfectly smooth at 1280x1024, 1x sampling rate.

Graphics:
. Everyone (character models) looks "puffy". In DX1, they were all skinny as a rail. It seems that the collapse was good for their stomachs.
. Character models also, to me, looked very "cartoony" (probably partly due to the puffiness). :/ I could have almost believed DX1 character models stepping out in to real life, but these just look animated.
. All the textures/etc appeared very "soft" as well, as opposed to the "grittiness" that gave DX1 such a nice feel.
. Fire was much nicer looking than any other game i've seen so far.
. They could have done better with the "soda" cans. DX1 was recognizable, i just thought these were small spools of wire or something till i happened to breeze my crosshairs over one.
. Font size was _hideous_ given the resolution i was in. To read a book of 5 or so paragraphs, with the font the way it is, was 3 "pages" long. Hard to read because i had to move my eyes/head across huge portions of the screen for each line.
. The concussion and spiderbot grenades look _very_ similar. They could have at least picked a different light color or shape.
. While objects/etc didn't look real, the lighting effects were very nicely done.
. Subtitles were also in the hideously huge fonts. Also was difficult with some of the conversations, such as entering the bar was a trial in patience as the guy gives this huge speech about turning your weapons off, every time. (oh, and somehow with a transmittable code, he turns off your baton...)

Gameplay:
. The control felt, sluggish, to me. I tried all different levels of mouse sensitivity, but still felt like it was lagging a bit.
. Because of the sluggish controls, i had a hard time even shooting greasels with a pistol.
. Gravity apparently does not have the same effect on the player as other objects in the game. Jumping from a standstill was simply amazing in the height and the slow fall time, as compared to all the boxes i threw around.
. You can enter a menu with a keystroke ("v" for example to enter the inVentory), but you CANNOT exit the menu using the same key. Have to hit this little "back" button.
. NO QUICKSAVE! ('nuff said about that item)
. Saving in general was a joke. To save a game, one hits a little button. No say in what the save is called or anything, just an auto-name with a time in game timestamp. To delete a game, you hover your mouse over the one you want to get rid of, and hit "Tab". Tab? When was the last time anyone deleted anything with Tab? (and there are no mini screen shots like in DX1, so you may have to load several if you are going back for some reason, and forgot which timestamp was the one you wanted)
. The animations of the menus were cute, but overly time consuming. Some of the menus seemed silly or over done. For example, having that huge "Yes/No" pop-up menu (with attendent animation) when you've clicked to move on to a new sector.
. Beware the bar! Next to the bar/tender there is this couple that has a neat little conversation, then EVERY single time after they always started with the same conversation from the start. I started going another route just to avoid their script lines.
. For those that were complaining about being able to clear out a person's entire belongings while they watched, will be partly happy. I was only able to do this about 50% of the time. The other 50% simply said things like "Hey, stop that!" (never actually did anything about it, but maybe i didn't push hard enough).
. Good bar point, you can clean it out, they don't mind you taking their money out of their locker. You can take the object on Sak's desk and she yells, you turn off her light, she yells, whiny, but didn't seem to do anything else (though with the obvious shotgun on her hip, i didn't try to hack the security terminal in her office).
. AI seems odd. While trying a few things out, i accidently shot this one guard (down by the fence) with the pistol one time. "Hey, don't do that!" (or something similar), but stayed "friendly". During a different play through, i decided to see what hacking the ATM looked like, so i did that, and the same guard flips out and starts all sort of flamethrower nonsense. Hacking an ATM gets him more upset than my putting a bullet in to his midsection?
. Multitools laying all over the place. No apparent rhyme or reason. Money seemed a bit more reasonably placed.
. A pistol, shotgun, fire extingushier, baton, and binoculars all take up the same amount of inventory space. This is the "improved" inventory system.
. Ladders seem to be more difficult to deal with than DX1, though you do more realistically put your weapon away while climbing on one.
. ATM's no longer have any interface. You either ignore them, or you hack them. Oh, and you just get some amount, and it breaks down. None of the excitement of typing the amount in before the time ran out.
. Security consoles appear to be either "select a user/pass you found somewhere" or hack. When you do finally hack one, you are assaulted with a HUGE font list of options.
. The security cameras are pretty cool, almost a vision aug type view.

Demo Specifics:
. Was very disappointed that each time i reloaded or changed "levels", i had to reset my key mappings. The game didn't even try to remember them.
. My windows mouse cursor was actually on the screen quite a bit. Detracted from the immersion considerably.
. (possibly just demo related) In the very bottom of the elevator shaft, i had a problem getting out, as i'd jump on to the large pipes in a crouch, and suddenly appear on the other side of the small area there.
. Not sure how, but i somehow climbed up a ventillation shaft. It wasn't immediately obvious HOW this was being accomplished, or how it might be used in other situations, but once i realized i was half-way up, i didn't question it.
. To change resolutions, i had to go through EVERY SINGLE ONE until i arrived at the one i wanted. "Click the arrow button, wait for my screen to flicker several times, click the arrow, wait..." Ugh! Maybe Xbox'ers don't understand "drop down menus", but they could at least have provided some radio buttons.

Conclusion:
I was _EAGERLY_ awaiting this game. Even completely played DX1 through _yet again_ just so i'd be in the proper frame of mind. Now i'm fairly certain that unless i happen to trip over a bag of money in the street, i won't be buying this game (even then, i might just take a friend out to the movies with the money instead). Some time ago, there was a Jurassic Park game that was heralded as the "Ultimate Box Stacking" simulator (as a joke due to it's game play limitations). My biggest interest with this demo seems to have been throwing boxes, so maybe this will become the "Ultimate Box Throwing" simulator.

I'm sure there was more, but this should be a good start.

Oh, and if this is what is in store for Thief 3, i'll be down at the local bar raising one to a game that is already dead.

(and please note that this was a thought out post, please also be thoughtful if you decide to counter)

[Xilema]

Originariamente inviato da TheRipper
Dove le becchi queste reviews? da un forum?

Si, quello ufficiale della EIDOS.

[Xilema]

Sempre peggio: le consoles questa volta l' hanno fatta grossa !




I'll tell you guys, i'm kinda depressed. Yes, i had too much invested in this game, thought it was going to be god and all. But shouldn't it at least be the equal of the first DX? I remember playing that demo and just being blown away, it had more depth in a signle level than most complete games are able to muster. And this IW thing? Ugh. It seems to me that the designers (cough cough HARVEY) entirely forgot or didn't see what made the first game great. Yes it was the open ended gameplay, yes it was the facinating story, that was the meat and potatoes. But the UI, the numerous nuances and subtleties are what gave the game its flavor and really made it a classic. All of the little touches (managing inventory space, skill sets, even the way weapon mods work) have been stripped away. But they didn't stop there, they then tore out ANYTHING that gave the game any sort of distinction beyond just being "open ended." Only one ammo type: needlessly simplified. No reloading: needlessly simplified. UI designed around being both obtuse and uniformative: needlessly simplified. Even the way in which you activate augs/biomods (have to scroll through them all rather then allowing them to be hotkeyed?) has been foolishly reduced.

The source of the problem is obvious: the console. The team saw the rather negative reaction to DX: The COnspiracy and decided they didn't want to be reviled like that again. So they started justifying to themselves "well, DX was really about all of it's nuance and subtle depth...it was really just about being able to have multiple solutions to problems." So they started whilting the game down, taking off chunks. "People don't really enjoy a deep combat system, they enjoy the ability to choose combat from a list of possible problem solutions." So they gutted the combat system to become: click at the red things until they stop moving. No strategy, no depth. You have certain number of "combat points" (ammo) that can be expended in different ammounts/speeds (weapons). Combat stops feeling realistic, it starts feeling lame and simplified. "People don't really enjoy hacking, they enjoy being able to choose hacking from a list." Instead of being exposed to a fairly convincing hacking UI, one built around various skill sets and equipment designed to make the player feel like a hacker we get this crap. Click on the computer--now you are a hacker!

Ugh, so i've rambled alot, i could go on more. But my point, as i've said a few times is this: the game has been overly simplified, to the point of loosing the nuance and depth that were essential to integrating the "open ended gameplay" into a satisfying experience. In DX, the depth and complexity in each of the different paths (stealth, hacking combat etc) each felt different, due simply to the fact that each had nuance (different ammo types, complex weapon mods, skill sets, well developed hacking UI, seperate picks and multitools). Now we just get "choose your play type from a list, then click click click." The different paths don't feel different anymore. It's like the designers started with David (DX) then proceed to chip away at it and whittle and remodle until they were left with the "core gameplay": a block of marble. Indeed, the heart of DX was open-ended gameplay which is ok, but you need intircacy and complexity to make it great.

I'm sorry Harvey, but I really hope Warren comes back as lead designed for DX3. You've managed to seriously miscalculate what made your own game valuable, and head down entirely the wrong path. Argh, i'm so upset. I just hope that a few last minute tweaks can get thrown in to at least smooth over the pc version to make it feel less like a fisher price game.

[ray_hunter]

Ho appena provato per pochi minuti la demo e sinceramente non posso che esserne sddisfatto.

Partendo dalla grafica la prima cosa che si evince è che di poligoni non ce ne sono tantissimi, ma di effeti realizzati tramite PS e VS una marea, partendo dal miglior bump mapping mai visto in un fps (altro che Halo) passando per un effetto di illuminazione chiamato "blow" che è realizzato davvero bene e che si era visto anche negli ultimi screen si Stalker; è quell'illuminazione che sfoca leggermente i contorni dell'immagine che abbiamo visto nel 3d mark 2003 in particolare in Trool's Lair e in mother nature.
A me piace veramente molto e lo trovo spettacolare e realistico dato toglie quell'effetto di taglio netto tra un bordo e l'altro e sulle ombre è di un realismo visto solo sui bench.
L'illuminazione e quasi completamente real time, ed è perfettamente applicate sia per i personaggi che per gli ambiente.
Non è come in Splinter Cell in cui l'ambiente utilizzava anche ombre statiche. Gli effetti di luce poi sono meravigliosi.
Di poligoni però mi è parso veramente scarso per i modelli dei personaggi e oggetti.
Non è neanche eccessivamente pesante. Con la conf in sign non scatta mai. In qualche inquadratura sta tra i 25-30 fps ma non da mai la sensazione di scattare. Certo non è leggero come Call of Duty ma siamo cmq ai livelli di Tron 2.0; chi ha un XP 2600+ o un P4 2,533 ghz non avrà alcun problemadi fluidità.
A livello di scheda video presumo ci voglia almeno una 9600pro o una 5600ultra dato che i PS e i VS sono usati massiciamente e a dire il vero è la prima volta (Halo escluso che era una conversione) ch vengono impiegati esetensivamente in un fps.
L'impatto generale però risente molto dei pochi poligoni usati per alcuni modelli e ambienti, ma IMHO siamo cmq a livelli buonissimi anche perchè lo stile grafico si adatta molto bene all'ambientazione del gioco (sempre IMHO).
Il sonoro mi pare simile al predecessore per lo stile usato.
Prtroppo non ho tesatato la demo abbastanza a fondo per potervi dire se è come il predecessore ma la non linearità e la possibilità di scegliere come proseguire nell'avventura sembrano molto accentuate perciò non penso possa deludere sotto questo punto di vista.
Totalmente da verificare se è stato mantenuto il carisma del predecessore per i personaggi, il background e la storia.
Penso non sia sufficente la demo per giudicare il level design, fattore che IMHO a contribuito non poco al successo di Deus-Ex.

(Scusate se per gli errori che troverete ma sto crollando dal sonno)

[Xilema]

Catastrofe




After playing around with the demo for a few hours and my fears about the changes to deus ex were right on. The only thing is its worse then i thought it would be. Sorry if these complaints are repeats.

1. Universal Ammo. Simply doesnt work. I hate it. There is no number to see how much ammo, there is only a bar and each weapon uses a different percentage of the bar.

2. Main Interface. I think its MORE clumsy then the pervious version. MASSIVE FONTS. SIMPLE subinterfaces make it less immersive.

3. TINY level. wow. i cant believe it. The vast feeling of the orginal is gone. I feel confined and bound by the small levels they have created. This takes away from the freedom of choice

4. MASSIVE graphic requirments. I had to put settings to medium low and i was still getting <10fps (2100 (1.7ghz), ti 4400, 1.5gb ram) The textures on the models looked WORSE then in the orignal. This is party because i had to put the settings down but it is still inexcusable.

5. Long load times plus 1min for me and the lvls are so small i cant see why it takes so long.

6. As i said before subinterfaces, such as hacking are rediculous. They feel cartoonish and plain, which makes for a dull console like experience.

7. I ABSOLUTY HATE NO SKILLS. There is no gratification for being able to hack computers faster and having more options when they are hacked. Everything is universal making the gameplay even more plain and boring.

8. No head shots. Unrealistic and annoying.

9. No toggle for crouching. i hate games that do this there is no reason. This was implemented to make it easier for consoles. I for one have the skill to hold down teh crouch key and move about. UTILIZE THE ADVANTAGES OF THE PC, thats why we play on it. If we wanted to play to console standards I'd buy a freeking xbox but i choose PC because of the options.

10. There is some sort of bug, which resets my controls every time i load. hopefully fixed in the final version.

11. I hate no inventory. The system now is more clumsy and annoying it was easier to drag what items you wanted onto your belt and rearrange them there if i liked.

12. Other little interfaces like reading a book. I right clicked on a book and it brought up massive font in a blue screen. WTF im reading a book not a computer screen.


All of these things make for exactly the opposite of their intentions. Immersion. There simply isnt any. None of these changes make sense except for on the xbox and I dont give a **** about the xbox. After playing the demo i cant describe how dissappointed with it i am. I knew i wouldnt like some of the new features but damn this is pathetic. Ive lost a lot of faith in the entire DX team and if it wasnt for the story i wouldnt be buying DX IW.

[TheRipper]

Mi dai l'indirizzo per favore?..magari riesco a trovare qualche soluzione per il mio problema di freezing...

[prova]

Ok: già capito che fa cagare.

Delusione pesante, però.

Cmq non disperiamo: c'è sempre Kotor che, vi assicuro, è un VERO capolavoro!

[Maury]

Nel casi di Deus Ex 2 mi fido dei commenti altrui fino ad un certo punto, è un gioco troppo particolare, lo DEVO vedere e giocare IO, appena riesco

[pindol]

Ho provato la demo proprio ora, mi direte che cazz provi una demo alle 2.29 del mattino (è non sapevo cosa afare ).

Vediamo:

1) Grafica da schifo, spero vivamente sia una demo alpha, alpha alphissima, perchè così non ci siamo.

2) Sistema fisiko Havok gestito che più male non si può, nemmeno in Max Payne 2 vedevo volare la gente in quel modo, ho sparato alla ragazza e l'ho uccisa, subito dopo volevo fare una prova del havok e ho sparato addosso al cadavere disteso a terra, beh appena gli ho sparato, il corpo si è messo a volare per aria come se lo avesse colpito un obice da 50 kg

3) Per quello che ho potuto provare nemmeno il sistema di illuminazione và bene, ho fatto una prova accendendo la lampadina della mia tuta (tasto "F") e ho proiettato la luce verso un soldato, sul muro dietro di lui neanche l'ombra di un ombra (scusate il gioco di parole.

Ma queste sono cose che sono sicuro (almeno spero) metteranno a posto nella versione finale.

Ciauz Pindol

[Joker80]

Lo sto scaricando ora vado

[shambler1]

vaff..ho un sistema abbastanza buono: p4 2800 t4600 , 1 giga di ram ddr 400. e scatta ! mai visto nulla di tanto pesante, nemmeno l'alpha famosa. non è godibile.
mp2 è molto fluido.
meno male che invidia the way blalbla.
avessi una mx , ma con la t 4600 pretendo di giocare!
col cazzo me lo compro!

[stefano76]

L' unica cosa che ho recepito dai commenti e che mi interessa è che dovrò cambiare PC per giocarlo ! Per il resto, il comparto grafico non è mai stata la cosa più importante di Deus Ex...

[stefano76]

Originariamente inviato da Xilema
Catastrofe





3. TINY level. wow. i cant believe it. The vast feeling of the orginal is gone. I feel confined and bound by the small levels they have created. This takes away from the freedom of choice


7. I ABSOLUTY HATE NO SKILLS. There is no gratification for being able to hack computers faster and having more options when they are hacked. Everything is universal making the gameplay even more plain and boring.


11. I hate no inventory. The system now is more clumsy and annoying it was easier to drag what items you wanted onto your belt and rearrange them there if i liked.

Spero vivamente che queste cose non siano vere, perchè altrimenti spacco tutto. Non posso crederci, ma si sono bevuti il cervello???

[redbaron]

Nuovo link GAMERSHELL

http://www.gamershell.com/download_4269.shtml

[ray_hunter]

Ragazzi guardate che se attivate l'AA vi va a 3 fps, se volete usarlo impostate il multisampling nel gioco.

Da va a una media di 30-40 fps con picchi minimi tra i 20-25, mi gira come Tron 2.0 ne meglio ne peggio.

Poi controllate di aver messo il dettaglio al max compreso ombre e illuminazione perch' è tutto in tempo reale ed è fatto veramente bene.

Se non avete letto il mio post ripeto qui che l'unico difetto è che non ci sono tantissimi poligoni per modelli e alcuni ambienti sono un pò spogli.

[stefano76]

Originariamente inviato da redbaron
Nuovo link GAMERSHELL

http://www.gamershell.com/download_4269.shtml

Sto scaricando a 28 k/s... due ore e mezza di download...

[Andre106]

Scusate ma è nprmale che mi faccia,...mmm...credo sui 5fps con AA 4x??

E' una cosa spaventosa!

[stefano76]

Hanno appena scritto che con l AA va a 3 fps, secondo te?