GioFX
08-09-2003, 21:59
con Gianni Minoli, peccato che si sovrapponga con Rai3... cmq guardatelo che poi ne discutiamo insieme.
View Full Version : RICOSTRUZIONE 11 Settembre 2001 ORA SU RAI2!!!
Quincy_it
08-09-2003, 22:00
Originariamente inviato da GioFX
con Gianni Minoli, peccato che si sovrapponga con Rai3... cmq guardatelo che poi ne discutiamo insieme.
Appena finisce "Il Mostro" lo metto ;) :D
con Gianni Minoli, peccato che si sovrapponga con Rai3... cmq guardatelo che poi ne discutiamo insieme.
Appena finisce "Il Mostro" lo metto ;) :D
GioFX
08-09-2003, 22:01
si tratta della timeline ricostruita come documentario come appare su unansweredquestions.
Quincy_it
08-09-2003, 22:02
Originariamente inviato da GioFX
si tratta della timeline ricostruita come documentario come appare su unansweredquestions.
Scherzavo prima.. ;)
Sto vedendo infatti, sembra molto interessante come trasmissione.
si tratta della timeline ricostruita come documentario come appare su unansweredquestions.
Scherzavo prima.. ;)
Sto vedendo infatti, sembra molto interessante come trasmissione.
GioFX
08-09-2003, 22:11
come poteva andare il convoglio a 120 km/h con una cadillac presidenziale con blindatura ben superiore alla B7 che non può fare più di 50 mi/h per il peso che ha?
Quincy_it
08-09-2003, 22:13
La mia domanda è questa (magari l'hanno spiegato all'inizio della trasmissione che non ho visto): come mai la trasmettono proprio oggi? Non è l'11 settembre.. :confused:
GioFX
08-09-2003, 22:25
Originariamente inviato da Quincy_it
La mia domanda è questa (magari l'hanno spiegato all'inizio della trasmissione che non ho visto): come mai la trasmettono proprio oggi? Non è l'11 settembre.. :confused:
vero... :D
La mia domanda è questa (magari l'hanno spiegato all'inizio della trasmissione che non ho visto): come mai la trasmettono proprio oggi? Non è l'11 settembre.. :confused:
vero... :D
GioFX
08-09-2003, 22:29
cmq... riprendendo la sempre aggiornata timeline, disponibile qui: http://www.unansweredquestions.net/timeline/
e lasciando perdere i giorni precedenti l'11 settembre, con ipotesi parzialmente (anzi in gran parte) confermate dai recenti documenti sulla mancata prevenzione dell'attacco da parte dei servizi segreti e dell'FBI (pure non parlando del caso O'Neil - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/) alcune cose sono davvero sconcertanti.
Points to keep in mind when you read the below:
The scrambling (sending into the air) of fighter aircraft at the first sign of trouble is a routine phenomenon. During the year 2000, there are 425 "unknowns" - pilots who didn't file or diverted from flight plans or used the wrong frequency. Fighters are scrambled in response 129 times in cases where problems are not immediately resolved. After 9/11, such scrambles go from about twice a week to three or four times a day. [Calgary Herald, 10/13/01] Between September 2000 and June 2001, fighters are scrambled 67 times. [AP, 8/13/02] General Ralph E. Eberhart, NORAD Commander in Chief, says that before 9/11, "Normally, our units fly 4-6 sorties a month in support of the NORAD air defense mission." [FNS, 10/25/01] Statistics on how many minutes fighters take to scramble before 9/11 apparently are not released.
"Consider that an aircraft emergency exists... when: ... There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any... aircraft." [FAA regulations]
"If... you are in doubt that a situation constitutes an emergency or potential emergency, handle it as though it were an emergency." [FAA regulations]
"Pilots are supposed to hit each fix with pinpoint accuracy. If a plane deviates by 15 degrees, or two miles from that course, the flight controllers will hit the panic button. They’ll call the plane, saying 'American 11, you’re deviating from course.' It’s considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour. When golfer Payne Stewart’s incapacitated Learjet missed a turn at a fix, heading north instead of west to Texas, F-16 interceptors were quickly dispatched." [MSNBC, 9/12/01]
"A NORAD spokesman says its fighters routinely intercept aircraft. When planes are intercepted, they typically are handled with a graduated response. The approaching fighter may rock its wingtips to attract the pilot's attention, or make a pass in front of the aircraft. Eventually, it can fire tracer rounds in the airplane's path, or, under certain circumstances, down it with a missile." [Boston Globe, 9/15/01]
"In October [2002], Gen. Eberhart told Congress that 'now it takes about one minute' from the time that the FAA senses something is amiss before it notifies NORAD. And around the same time, a NORAD spokesofficer told the Associated Press that the military can now scramble fighters 'within a matter of minutes to anywhere in the United States.'" [Slate, 1/16/02]
The commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Anatoli Kornukov, says the day after 9/11: "Generally it is impossible to carry out an act of terror on the scenario which was used in the USA yesterday.... As soon as something like that happens here, I am reported about that right away and in a minute we are all up." [Pravda, 9/12/01]
Supposedly, on 9/11, there are only four fighters on ready status in the Northeastern US, and only 14 fighters on permanent ready status in the entire US. [BBC, 8/29/02] However, any number of additional fighters could be in the air or ready to fly at the time the 9/11 attacks begin, but exact numbers are not known.
Additionally, the Air Traffic Services Cell (ATSC), an office designed to facilitate communications between the FAA and the military, had just been given a secure Internet (Siprnet) terminal and other hardware six weeks earlier, "greatly enhancing the movement of vital information." [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/10/02]
....
(After 8:13 a.m.) Shortly after flight controllers ask Flight 11 to climb to 35,000 feet, the transponder stops transmitting. The transponder is the electronic device that identifies the jet on the controller's screen, gives its exact location and altitude, and also allows a four-digit emergency hijack code to be sent. Air traffic manager Glenn Michael says later, "We considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking." ["When given permission to climb to 35,000 feet," AP, 8/12/02, "8:13:47 — 46R: AAL11, now climb maintain FL350," New York Times, 10/16/01, shortly after trying emergency frequencies, Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01] "Just moments" after radio contact is lost (which is discussed by flight controllers at 8:15), the transponder is turned off. [MSNBC, 9/15/01] NORAD officially says it is not notified the plane is hijacked until 8:40 - 27 minutes later, though one NORAD employee contradicts this (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.). [NORAD, 9/18/01] Colonel Robert Marr, head of NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector, later claims the transponder is turned off some time after 8:30. [ABC News, 9/11/02]
e lasciando perdere i giorni precedenti l'11 settembre, con ipotesi parzialmente (anzi in gran parte) confermate dai recenti documenti sulla mancata prevenzione dell'attacco da parte dei servizi segreti e dell'FBI (pure non parlando del caso O'Neil - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/) alcune cose sono davvero sconcertanti.
Points to keep in mind when you read the below:
The scrambling (sending into the air) of fighter aircraft at the first sign of trouble is a routine phenomenon. During the year 2000, there are 425 "unknowns" - pilots who didn't file or diverted from flight plans or used the wrong frequency. Fighters are scrambled in response 129 times in cases where problems are not immediately resolved. After 9/11, such scrambles go from about twice a week to three or four times a day. [Calgary Herald, 10/13/01] Between September 2000 and June 2001, fighters are scrambled 67 times. [AP, 8/13/02] General Ralph E. Eberhart, NORAD Commander in Chief, says that before 9/11, "Normally, our units fly 4-6 sorties a month in support of the NORAD air defense mission." [FNS, 10/25/01] Statistics on how many minutes fighters take to scramble before 9/11 apparently are not released.
"Consider that an aircraft emergency exists... when: ... There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any... aircraft." [FAA regulations]
"If... you are in doubt that a situation constitutes an emergency or potential emergency, handle it as though it were an emergency." [FAA regulations]
"Pilots are supposed to hit each fix with pinpoint accuracy. If a plane deviates by 15 degrees, or two miles from that course, the flight controllers will hit the panic button. They’ll call the plane, saying 'American 11, you’re deviating from course.' It’s considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour. When golfer Payne Stewart’s incapacitated Learjet missed a turn at a fix, heading north instead of west to Texas, F-16 interceptors were quickly dispatched." [MSNBC, 9/12/01]
"A NORAD spokesman says its fighters routinely intercept aircraft. When planes are intercepted, they typically are handled with a graduated response. The approaching fighter may rock its wingtips to attract the pilot's attention, or make a pass in front of the aircraft. Eventually, it can fire tracer rounds in the airplane's path, or, under certain circumstances, down it with a missile." [Boston Globe, 9/15/01]
"In October [2002], Gen. Eberhart told Congress that 'now it takes about one minute' from the time that the FAA senses something is amiss before it notifies NORAD. And around the same time, a NORAD spokesofficer told the Associated Press that the military can now scramble fighters 'within a matter of minutes to anywhere in the United States.'" [Slate, 1/16/02]
The commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Anatoli Kornukov, says the day after 9/11: "Generally it is impossible to carry out an act of terror on the scenario which was used in the USA yesterday.... As soon as something like that happens here, I am reported about that right away and in a minute we are all up." [Pravda, 9/12/01]
Supposedly, on 9/11, there are only four fighters on ready status in the Northeastern US, and only 14 fighters on permanent ready status in the entire US. [BBC, 8/29/02] However, any number of additional fighters could be in the air or ready to fly at the time the 9/11 attacks begin, but exact numbers are not known.
Additionally, the Air Traffic Services Cell (ATSC), an office designed to facilitate communications between the FAA and the military, had just been given a secure Internet (Siprnet) terminal and other hardware six weeks earlier, "greatly enhancing the movement of vital information." [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/10/02]
....
(After 8:13 a.m.) Shortly after flight controllers ask Flight 11 to climb to 35,000 feet, the transponder stops transmitting. The transponder is the electronic device that identifies the jet on the controller's screen, gives its exact location and altitude, and also allows a four-digit emergency hijack code to be sent. Air traffic manager Glenn Michael says later, "We considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking." ["When given permission to climb to 35,000 feet," AP, 8/12/02, "8:13:47 — 46R: AAL11, now climb maintain FL350," New York Times, 10/16/01, shortly after trying emergency frequencies, Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01] "Just moments" after radio contact is lost (which is discussed by flight controllers at 8:15), the transponder is turned off. [MSNBC, 9/15/01] NORAD officially says it is not notified the plane is hijacked until 8:40 - 27 minutes later, though one NORAD employee contradicts this (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.). [NORAD, 9/18/01] Colonel Robert Marr, head of NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector, later claims the transponder is turned off some time after 8:30. [ABC News, 9/11/02]
GioFX
08-09-2003, 23:02
vabbè, era tradotto, non italiano... un pò troppo spettacolarizzato e tutto il resto, però vi sono spunti interessanti, come la questione dell'allerta ritardata per i primi 2 aere dirottati, il flight 93 e i soli 4 caccia diponibili nelle decine di basi della costa est.
nicovent
08-09-2003, 23:04
un pò spettacolarizzato....alla Minoli!
Per il resto quasi niente di nuovo.
Per il resto quasi niente di nuovo.
GioFX
08-09-2003, 23:07
si vero, ma qualche puntata recentemente è stata interessante...
Er Paulus
08-09-2003, 23:14
io non ho capito un passaggio..
quando diceva "il presidente ha dato ordine di far decollare gli areri( non so quali), che hanno il compito di cotrollare non so cosa"..
ma di che aerei si trattava?:confused:
quando diceva "il presidente ha dato ordine di far decollare gli areri( non so quali), che hanno il compito di cotrollare non so cosa"..
ma di che aerei si trattava?:confused:
GioFX
08-09-2003, 23:22
Originariamente inviato da Er Paulus
io non ho capito un passaggio..
quando diceva "il presidente ha dato ordine di far decollare gli areri( non so quali), che hanno il compito di cotrollare non so cosa"..
ma di che aerei si trattava?:confused:
credo si riferisse agli aerei che sono preposti a trasportare gli alti funzionari governativi, del Senato e del Congresso... in modo che siano al sicuro in aree diverse... e in quel momento il posto più controllabile e sicuro, paradossalmente, era il cielo stesso.
io non ho capito un passaggio..
quando diceva "il presidente ha dato ordine di far decollare gli areri( non so quali), che hanno il compito di cotrollare non so cosa"..
ma di che aerei si trattava?:confused:
credo si riferisse agli aerei che sono preposti a trasportare gli alti funzionari governativi, del Senato e del Congresso... in modo che siano al sicuro in aree diverse... e in quel momento il posto più controllabile e sicuro, paradossalmente, era il cielo stesso.
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